RAFFT Failures, are they being booted out

[tacadmin]

I'll be attempting my RAFFT tomorrow afternoon. Always a tense time for me, not because i'm unfit (i've never failed a FT), but because the older I get the more I struggle with the bleep test. I can do a mile and a half in less than 10 mins if I push myself, and have run a couple of half marathons in recent years.
The Navy get a choice - either bleep test or mile and a half run - and standards are set accordingly for each. So many people use 'the bleep test' ask an excuse for failing (myslef included if I fail tomorrow!), so why not adopt the RN system and give people a choice?

 

[metimmee]

I'll be attempting my RAFFT tomorrow afternoon. Always a tense time for me, not because i'm unfit (i've never failed a FT), but because the older I get the more I struggle with the bleep test. I can do a mile and a half in less than 10 mins if I push myself, and have run a couple of half marathons in recent years.
The Navy get a choice - either bleep test or mile and a half run - and standards are set accordingly for each. So many people use 'the bleep test' ask an excuse for failing (myslef included if I fail tomorrow!), so why not adopt the RN system and give people a choice?

Dont forget that the RN MSFT levels are lower and dont include press-ups or sit-ups!

 

[PTR Hoar]

Dont forget that the RN MSFT levels are lower and dont include press-ups or sit-ups!

Why are the navy levels lower!?

 

[tacadmin]

Most people don't complain about the press-ups / sit-ups though. The run seems to be the biggest issue for people failing.
But, maybe they want us to fail..........

 

[tacadmin]

Why are the navy levels lower!?

Because Ships are smaller than airfields?? Beats me!

 

[Little Tronk]

Well well - hasn't this become a touchy subject for some!

Indeed, in the MOD/Governments cash strapped/penny pinching times we must all be aware that it really doesn't matter if you are showing a "positive attitude" or not. If you fail to meet the new requirements - remedial/retest etc, you are an easy - and more importantly CHEAP way to reduce a wage bill that is need (rightly or wrongly) of a good chopping (allegedly).

I have worked, and currently work with, VERY good tradesmen - some of whom will fall foul of this underhand and blatantly obvious wage bill saving measure. All of whom display a first rate attitude to personal fitness that I have witnessed first hand. For some reason - they cannot seem to get over the finish line and it would be a crying shame to see any of them shown the door.

We should be trying to instill positive attitude in those who struggle - not shooting them down at the first opportunity. Many become so demoralised at the stigma that engulfs them that any fight they did have has long since been sapped away.

There are of course those who do have a poor attitude, and it is up to experienced Phys staff and line managers to weed out the rubbish. The system HAS to be on a case by case basis - SJAR's/line managers etc must be consulted to gain an accurate picture of a subjects "attitude" - This I fully agree with.

unless of course you just want to save a few quid and don't care

Aaaannnd we've come full circle!

Unfortunatly I refer you to my post above (#15). Their definition of 'positive attitude' is utter bo**0x. A lot of people I know can go for hours (well lots of minutes anyway!) in the gym and feel good. As soon as you here that "start of level one" and the 3 feckin' beeps you get the physical stamina of a 100 year old 60 a day bloke!

Somebody called it 'Swinderby fear' the other day, normally you can do everything first time every time but as soon as you do it under RAF test conditions.................................

How many people can handle their weapon (Fnnarr Fnnar) perfectly now but make them do an official WHT and they will at least stutter at some point.

 

[Jamstercat]

I am the E&D Facilitator on my Sqn. On the E&D DVD there are a number of scenarios to show and I usually finish the session with "Who's in your Team?"
"Who's in your Team?" shows a cross section of ranks from the Army, Navy & RAF and the main point coming across that everyone should be treated with fairness and equality whatever their background, beliefs etc etc and as part of the MoD we are all part of the Team.
Why then is it when it comes down to the RAFFT that discrimination suddenly rears its head?
I have been asked on a number of occasions why there is a difference between the 3 Services and quite frankly I am embarrassed when I try to justify the RAFFT.
As stated in previous posts there are rules for the Army, rules for the Navy, rules for the RAF and then more rules if you are Male or Female.
If we are truly ALL equal and ALL part of the same TEAM then should we not all be carrying out the same Fitness Test across all Services on a level par?
The Civilian Police Test is the same for everybody?

 

[rest have risen above me]

I am the E&D Facilitator on my Sqn. On the E&D DVD there are a number of scenarios to show and I usually finish the session with "Who's in your Team?"
"Who's in your Team?" shows a cross section of ranks from the Army, Navy & RAF and the main point coming across that everyone should be treated with fairness and equality whatever their background, beliefs etc etc and as part of the MoD we are all part of the Team.
Why then is it when it comes down to the RAFFT that discrimination suddenly rears its head?
I have been asked on a number of occasions why there is a difference between the 3 Services and quite frankly I am embarrassed when I try to justify the RAFFT.
As stated in previous posts there are rules for the Army, rules for the Navy, rules for the RAF and then more rules if you are Male or Female.
If we are truly ALL equal and ALL part of the same TEAM then should we not all be carrying out the same Fitness Test across all Services on a level par?
The Civilian Police Test is the same for everybody?

It's not the same because some arrogant idiot in Whitehall thinks he/she can thumb his nose at the equality laws, obviously he/she hasn't learnt from the preggers WRAF debacle and the "I'm a little camp" cases that cost a fortune in legal and compensation. This is going to cost the MoD a fortune when the proper legal boys get their teeth into it.

 

[OK..Igiveup]

enough

enough

Unfortunatly I refer you to my post above (#15). Their definition of 'positive attitude' is utter bo**0x. A lot of people I know can go for hours (well lots of minutes anyway!) in the gym and feel good. As soon as you here that "start of level one" and the 3 feckin' beeps you get the physical stamina of a 100 year old 60 a day bloke!

Somebody called it 'Swinderby fear' the other day, normally you can do everything first time every time but as soon as you do it under RAF test conditions.................................

How many people can handle their weapon (Fnnarr Fnnar) perfectly now but make them do an official WHT and they will at least stutter at some point.

Chuck in the stress of losing your job and pension and the threats of stigma if you fall short and the continuous harrasment all makes the test difficult for those borderline.

hang on Threats....Harrasment....victimisation....bullying....I am sure I saw a poster about that.

 

[RAF Bird]

I am the E&D Facilitator on my Sqn. On the E&D DVD there are a number of scenarios to show and I usually finish the session with "Who's in your Team?"
"Who's in your Team?" shows a cross section of ranks from the Army, Navy & RAF and the main point coming across that everyone should be treated with fairness and equality whatever their background, beliefs etc etc and as part of the MoD we are all part of the Team.
Why then is it when it comes down to the RAFFT that discrimination suddenly rears its head?
I have been asked on a number of occasions why there is a difference between the 3 Services and quite frankly I am embarrassed when I try to justify the RAFFT.
As stated in previous posts there are rules for the Army, rules for the Navy, rules for the RAF and then more rules if you are Male or Female.
If we are truly ALL equal and ALL part of the same TEAM then should we not all be carrying out the same Fitness Test across all Services on a level par?
The Civilian Police Test is the same for everybody?

The civvy cop test is a 15 meter bleep test which everyone has to reach level 5.4. Happy days I vote for that one!

 

[I`m Ron Burgundy?]

As covered in numerous other threads the VO2 maximal test is gender fair given that it has been calculated taking into account the physiological differences between the sexes. If you look hard enough on here somewhere there is a perfect undeniable scientific explanation; I just can't remember where it is...

However why the Police have a significantly lower standard when it comes to the MSFT is a total mystery to me!

 

[True Blue Jack]

As covered in numerous other threads the VO2 maximal test is gender fair given that it has been calculated taking into account the physiological differences between the sexes. If you look hard enough on here somewhere there is a perfect undeniable scientific explanation; I just can't remember where it is...

However why the Police have a significantly lower standard when it comes to the MSFT is a total mystery to me!

Somebody cleverer than I would be able to give you a perfect undeniable scientific explanation why the world is flat (Google the Flat Earth Society, it's fascinating) - it just doesn't match up with the observable evidence.

Of the people who have been discharged for their attitude to the RAFFT, I would quite like to see a breakdown of gender, age, and the element(s) failed. Without having seen the evidence, I speculate that they will mostly be men in the 17-29 age group who failed the run.

 

[The Nip]

Fitness Test

Fitness Test

I have been reading all the many comments on the fitness test for some years now. Firstly, I am not a fan and only do the minimum to pass. I am not saying I could do a lot more anyway.
BUT... As was explained to me, we all have choices.
We chose to join up.
With that goes all the things we like and don't like. Since when have we been able to pick and choose which orders to obey and which to ignore? There are many on here who have been in a long time. It matters not what happened in the early 80's when I joined the RAF, as is not about the past but the present and future. The powers that be have decided, rightly or wrongly, but they have. Things are no better or worse now just different. Make your choice as a grown up and stop moaning.

 

[Chrislewis]

Things are no better or worse now just different

If only that were true. All choices are now "Take it or leave" and I for one have just taken the latter.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Of the people who have been discharged for their attitude to the RAFFT, I would quite like to see a breakdown of gender, age, and the element(s) failed. Without having seen the evidence, I speculate that they will mostly be men in the 17-29 age group who failed the run.

Both discharges here were mid-20's males.

Now back on the subject of the test being fair to both sexes because of body make-up. I have two questions:

Do the Taliban/Al Quaeda/any enemy we are fighting shoot their bullets or send their rockets in at a slower speed if they know there are females, or are both males and females equally at risk to the bullets, missiles & IEDs?

When extracting from a contact situation, do males and females have different designated "safe" areas to account for their different ability to run, or do they both have to peg it an equal distance to cover?

Just wondering like...

 

[Chrislewis]

When extracting from a contact situation, do males and females have different designated "safe" areas to account for their different ability to run, or do they both have to peg it an equal distance to cover?

Do they also get three attempts to catch their mates up...lol.

 

[sausage2]

When questioned on his policy about the RAFFT a certain staish at a secret Wilts airbase said that he would enforce the RAF policy of booting out repeated failures, because if he needed to be pulled out of a burning aircraft he would want someone that was fit enough to do it. The current RAFFT record for the females at this camp is held by a girl I work with. She got up to level 12 or something which is very commendable. However she is about 8 stone and about 5'3".

I personally would prefer a 6' 16 stone brute to get me out off a burning aircraft and not worry too much if he was able to run between 2 lines 20 meters apart.

It's a sh1t policy, poorly implemented.


PS. I've never failed one.

 

[tacadmin]

Our test should be the same for Males and Females. Also, I would have thought that fitness in the civvy police (chasing car thieves etc) is more of a necessity than in the RAF, yet their test is ridiculously easy.

As for the comment above about 'moaning' - i'm not moaning, and I will go and do my test this afternoon. If they raise the standards again in the next few years I will make sure i'm just fit enough to pass it (best effort, my @r$e). I think all we're saying is that we're all paid the same in the Armed Forces, so why are there so many variations in standards?

 

[Stakz]

When questioned on his policy about the RAFFT a certain staish at a secret Wilts airbase said that he would enforce the RAF policy of booting out repeated failures, because if he needed to be pulled out of a burning aircraft he would want someone that was fit enough to do it -

Best its the bus heading off to remedial PT/P1 than the one heading off to the med centre with ankle and knee injuries that’s passing when he does then or he is in trouble!

 

[fatal]

When questioned on his policy about the RAFFT a certain staish at a secret Wilts airbase said that he would enforce the RAF policy of booting out repeated failures, because if he needed to be pulled out of a burning aircraft he would want someone that was fit enough to do it. The current RAFFT record for the females at this camp is held by a girl I work with. She got up to level 12 or something which is very commendable. However she is about 8 stone and about 5'3".

I personally would prefer a 6' 16 stone brute to get me out off a burning aircraft and not worry too much if he was able to run between 2 lines 20 meters apart.

It's a sh1t policy, poorly implemented.


PS. I've never failed one.

Following Sauasage musings why dont they amend the test - are press ups and sit ups really relevant , wouldnt a better accompaniment to the bleep test be a 50m timed drag of a 12stone dummy in full kit? Surely more important to be able to get your oppo out of hazardous conditions sharpish than do 30 willy dips ?