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H
HansBwix
Guest
......Climbing onto Soapbox.........
......Climbing onto Soapbox.........
It might be my admittedly alcohol-atrophied memory at fault but I'm sure there was some size 4 font at the bottom of the contract I was enjoined to sign over a coffee and stale digestive that said I had to serve at least some time in productive service before I could bugger orf to be a snivillian. Perhaps there should be some sort of Student loan PAYE stylie repayment package for those who are not just lacking in moral fibre but seem to have invented Anti-Moral Fibre - as soon as you start earning money in your civvie street job after quitting without a return of serve and having happily entered 'graduate of RAFC Cranwell, leadership, management blah blah' into your CV, you have to start repaying the money it cost the taxpayer to put you through said training. Given that we are all taxpayers (does that make us technically self employed?) I say grab 'em by the ankles and shake 'em upside down until they pay the sodding training costs back.
*harrumph!*
......Climbing onto Soapbox.........
It might be my admittedly alcohol-atrophied memory at fault but I'm sure there was some size 4 font at the bottom of the contract I was enjoined to sign over a coffee and stale digestive that said I had to serve at least some time in productive service before I could bugger orf to be a snivillian. Perhaps there should be some sort of Student loan PAYE stylie repayment package for those who are not just lacking in moral fibre but seem to have invented Anti-Moral Fibre - as soon as you start earning money in your civvie street job after quitting without a return of serve and having happily entered 'graduate of RAFC Cranwell, leadership, management blah blah' into your CV, you have to start repaying the money it cost the taxpayer to put you through said training. Given that we are all taxpayers (does that make us technically self employed?) I say grab 'em by the ankles and shake 'em upside down until they pay the sodding training costs back.
*harrumph!*
T
The Hooded Claw
Guest
the working classes have to complete 3 years service before they can bang in their PVRs I beleive, unless they get booted out or its during phase 1 training, dunno about the other lot though.
H
HansBwix
Guest
Readyaimfire!
Readyaimfire!
Any further news on the malingering gits? I'd be quite interested to hear what the reasons were behind raping the RAF for sums unpublished and then realising therre was a certain amount of physical and emotional payback required.
Given the LCR to CR process it isn't even like they're going to have to deploy anywhere soon!
Readyaimfire!
Any further news on the malingering gits? I'd be quite interested to hear what the reasons were behind raping the RAF for sums unpublished and then realising therre was a certain amount of physical and emotional payback required.
Given the LCR to CR process it isn't even like they're going to have to deploy anywhere soon!
O
Oh See Jake
Guest
Whoa there!
Whoa there!
Let's take the emotion out of this...
a. There probably isn't a career course in the whole of the RAF that graduated the same number that it started off with.
b. One of them is coming back!
c. Maybe we need to do a grass-roots look at the way we recruit our folk - new aptitude tests, some sort of pre-selection etc; that way, we get the right people in the first place.
d. Maybe we need to look at what folks are being told we do before they join; who's fault is it if they join, then find that the AFCO wasn't exactly up to speed about the Branch? Folks get disillousioned.
e. Anyone is entitled to leave before they have completed career trg in any Branch - i.e before they graduate!
Whoa there!
Let's take the emotion out of this...
a. There probably isn't a career course in the whole of the RAF that graduated the same number that it started off with.
b. One of them is coming back!
c. Maybe we need to do a grass-roots look at the way we recruit our folk - new aptitude tests, some sort of pre-selection etc; that way, we get the right people in the first place.
d. Maybe we need to look at what folks are being told we do before they join; who's fault is it if they join, then find that the AFCO wasn't exactly up to speed about the Branch? Folks get disillousioned.
e. Anyone is entitled to leave before they have completed career trg in any Branch - i.e before they graduate!
Last edited:
S
Son of Saddam
Guest
Blame the Ivory Tower....
Blame the Ivory Tower....
When the Branch was looking at what to do if someone failed any of the STANEVAL process it became clear that chopping someone post-JAIC would be extremely difficult. Why? Because the recruitment literature has not been updated for 5 yrs or so. Therefore, as the possibility of chopping post JAIC was not outlined nor was it in the Terms and Conditions the Branch has to tread carefully. We need to bring it all up to date...then we can act on it!!!
Still....bring back flogging!
Blame the Ivory Tower....
When the Branch was looking at what to do if someone failed any of the STANEVAL process it became clear that chopping someone post-JAIC would be extremely difficult. Why? Because the recruitment literature has not been updated for 5 yrs or so. Therefore, as the possibility of chopping post JAIC was not outlined nor was it in the Terms and Conditions the Branch has to tread carefully. We need to bring it all up to date...then we can act on it!!!
Still....bring back flogging!
In Tor Wot
LAC
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once in . . . .
once in . . . .
Unfortunately (as usual) it's a bit more complicated than reviewing what the Branch does. The terms and conditions of employment in the RAF state that they are 'accepted' only once they have completed professional training i.e. post-JAIC. Up to that point the RAF, or the individual, may terminate employment. In the case of the individual they may depart the fix without giving a reason. The RAF, on the other hand, have to show good reason for termination of contract - failing professional training is regarded as good enough.
The RAF accept that the JAIC is the professional training for the Branch and currently take no account of the follow-on training. There would have to be an extremely strong case written to get the further training accepted as part and parcel of the overall professional training. There is a precedent already accepted - aircrew. Fail the OCU and you're off, so it's not impossible but I venture that it would be a little like trying to push rope uphill to get the moth master-race to accept that a SqnIntO needs to be properly trained!
As for the quality of the people coming in . . . . The aptitude tests are designed to test someone's physical/mental ability to perform the function (and have been in place at OASC since 2000), whilst interviews etc are there to test their motivation. So I don't question their ability, capability or motivation, nor do I think the current course drop-out number is high, I think a degree of it might be caused by a dislocation of expectation. We have no-one at OASC and the only source of information on the branch and what it does is on the RAF web site ( http://www.rafcareers.com/jobs/intelligenceofficer.cfm ). Have a read and see if you recognise anything that we do there. It is so out of date and inaccurate that there it's no wonder that people joining are disillusioned during training!!!
A couple of examples:
"After your training, you could be attached to an operational flying squadron as a tactical Imagery Analyst. Your abilities will be tested to the full as you rapidly interpret incoming reconnaissance imagery." We haven't had a RIC for 3 years and even when we did have only 3 squadrons had one!! (I don't include PR9).
"Or you could be posted to the Joint Air Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre (JARIC) at RAF Brampton, or even Headquarters Strike Command – where you’ll help produce a strategic overview of the intelligence picture." With the exception of a couple of briefers we haven't had anyone at STC in that role for 5 years. In addition, less than 5% of Branch JOs are at JARIC so the chances of getting there are slimmer than the blurb would appear to represent. Furthermore, the largest single concentration of the Branch (AWC) isn’t even mentioned.
The CIOs, OASC and the candidates use this hoop as their baseline understanding of what the Branch is about. We can't very well blame the poor sod that's joined up thinking the Branch is one thing then finding out it's something completely different when they hit training, if we can't get our particulars in a sock to accurately describe and illustrate what we do.
DT_Xtremez_35:
once in . . . .
Unfortunately (as usual) it's a bit more complicated than reviewing what the Branch does. The terms and conditions of employment in the RAF state that they are 'accepted' only once they have completed professional training i.e. post-JAIC. Up to that point the RAF, or the individual, may terminate employment. In the case of the individual they may depart the fix without giving a reason. The RAF, on the other hand, have to show good reason for termination of contract - failing professional training is regarded as good enough.
The RAF accept that the JAIC is the professional training for the Branch and currently take no account of the follow-on training. There would have to be an extremely strong case written to get the further training accepted as part and parcel of the overall professional training. There is a precedent already accepted - aircrew. Fail the OCU and you're off, so it's not impossible but I venture that it would be a little like trying to push rope uphill to get the moth master-race to accept that a SqnIntO needs to be properly trained!
As for the quality of the people coming in . . . . The aptitude tests are designed to test someone's physical/mental ability to perform the function (and have been in place at OASC since 2000), whilst interviews etc are there to test their motivation. So I don't question their ability, capability or motivation, nor do I think the current course drop-out number is high, I think a degree of it might be caused by a dislocation of expectation. We have no-one at OASC and the only source of information on the branch and what it does is on the RAF web site ( http://www.rafcareers.com/jobs/intelligenceofficer.cfm ). Have a read and see if you recognise anything that we do there. It is so out of date and inaccurate that there it's no wonder that people joining are disillusioned during training!!!
A couple of examples:
"After your training, you could be attached to an operational flying squadron as a tactical Imagery Analyst. Your abilities will be tested to the full as you rapidly interpret incoming reconnaissance imagery." We haven't had a RIC for 3 years and even when we did have only 3 squadrons had one!! (I don't include PR9).
"Or you could be posted to the Joint Air Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre (JARIC) at RAF Brampton, or even Headquarters Strike Command – where you’ll help produce a strategic overview of the intelligence picture." With the exception of a couple of briefers we haven't had anyone at STC in that role for 5 years. In addition, less than 5% of Branch JOs are at JARIC so the chances of getting there are slimmer than the blurb would appear to represent. Furthermore, the largest single concentration of the Branch (AWC) isn’t even mentioned.
The CIOs, OASC and the candidates use this hoop as their baseline understanding of what the Branch is about. We can't very well blame the poor sod that's joined up thinking the Branch is one thing then finding out it's something completely different when they hit training, if we can't get our particulars in a sock to accurately describe and illustrate what we do.
DT_Xtremez_35:
S
Son of Saddam
Guest
Recruiting Literature...
Recruiting Literature...
Good points! The main issue is to get the Branch advertised properly and ensure that we are recruiting the right type of people..that at least gives us a sound start.
So who's looking at it?
PS finally got my signature sorted...apologies for 'shouting'!
Recruiting Literature...
Good points! The main issue is to get the Branch advertised properly and ensure that we are recruiting the right type of people..that at least gives us a sound start.
So who's looking at it?
PS finally got my signature sorted...apologies for 'shouting'!
C
Cat of Shadows
Guest
In Tor Wot said:
Tsk tsk In Tor Wot, I'm very disappointed
DT_Xtremez_32: Agreed about the detail in the career pamphlets, but the 2 posts at Strike are a little more than just briefing posts; they are certainly not what they once seemed!!
In Tor Wot
LAC
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NewWebsite please
NewWebsite please
Cat you're right but the context of the site was from the old days of Cmd Int. In addition I think its prominence kind of outweighs the 0.5% JO employment of the Branch!DT_Xtremez_21:
BTW something else I noticed on the web site . . . why is it that all the other Ops Spt elements get their own headings and we get lumped in with shaggin' 'communications' ? Are we so similar to Aerial erectors, photgraphers and Logistics and equipment? Off Topic
NewWebsite please
Cat you're right but the context of the site was from the old days of Cmd Int. In addition I think its prominence kind of outweighs the 0.5% JO employment of the Branch!
DT_Xtremez_21: BTW something else I noticed on the web site . . . why is it that all the other Ops Spt elements get their own headings and we get lumped in with shaggin' 'communications' ? Are we so similar to Aerial erectors, photgraphers and Logistics and equipment? Off Topic
A
Allah
Guest
?
?
Enlightened Ones, our branch will forever be ripped asunder whilst we lack direction. For Jinns continue to plague us with uncertainty and senior branch Imans are consumed with lust for power and self-advancement. Woe is the branch whilst the infidel RAFP continue to hog (snort snort) the world of CT and CI for these disciplines would make us complete.
Truly there are many blessed ones who expand into other intelligence areas beside A2, for intelligence is holistic. Once have we moved away from the devilish desires of imagery; now we must deliver a full range of effects to dominate the intelligence battlespace.
Why O Beloved Ones, is the RAF's most senior Mullah deprived of intelligence support. When will we break forth of our chains?
?
Enlightened Ones, our branch will forever be ripped asunder whilst we lack direction. For Jinns continue to plague us with uncertainty and senior branch Imans are consumed with lust for power and self-advancement. Woe is the branch whilst the infidel RAFP continue to hog (snort snort) the world of CT and CI for these disciplines would make us complete.
Truly there are many blessed ones who expand into other intelligence areas beside A2, for intelligence is holistic. Once have we moved away from the devilish desires of imagery; now we must deliver a full range of effects to dominate the intelligence battlespace.
Why O Beloved Ones, is the RAF's most senior Mullah deprived of intelligence support. When will we break forth of our chains?
PiMpMyRiDe
LAC
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Raf careers wedsite......
...I'm on it already.
I have been in touch with them and they should be paying a visit in the next couple of weeks with the view of replacing the nonsense that they have at the moment and getting a new 'featured' bod to say a few words. Have to check it all through the Ivory Tower first but its well on the way.
As for the selection process, there are two (soon to be one) of our brethren at the OASC. A change to the selection process has to be initiated by our lords and masters, however myself and a few other of my esteemed colleagues are putting together a case to the halls of wisdom at the aye double-you see to start the ball rolling following our little visit to the filtering-halls at Cranners.
So, rest your trouble minds my fellow sneeky-beekys as things should change for the better in the near future.DT_Xtremez_30:
...I'm on it already.
I have been in touch with them and they should be paying a visit in the next couple of weeks with the view of replacing the nonsense that they have at the moment and getting a new 'featured' bod to say a few words. Have to check it all through the Ivory Tower first but its well on the way.
As for the selection process, there are two (soon to be one) of our brethren at the OASC. A change to the selection process has to be initiated by our lords and masters, however myself and a few other of my esteemed colleagues are putting together a case to the halls of wisdom at the aye double-you see to start the ball rolling following our little visit to the filtering-halls at Cranners.
So, rest your trouble minds my fellow sneeky-beekys as things should change for the better in the near future.
DT_Xtremez_30:
H
HansBwix
Guest
Movement at last.....
Movement at last.....
Good news Pimp,
I've read with interest and hadn't honestly reaslised just how sh*te the recruitment literature was - and then began to despair that anyone would grip the rewrite. Perhaps it would be an idea to have an input from each area of the branch i.e. those who are at JARIC/DHU/Stn/Sqn/HQ int posts so that the blurb is written by people actually in the posts? Of course, I'd expect it to go through the branch editorial process to make sure any submission is 'on song' but it would help to cut out the misunderstanding of what the job is actually about if there are honest descriptions of each aspect of being a Spook.
Movement at last.....
Good news Pimp,
I've read with interest and hadn't honestly reaslised just how sh*te the recruitment literature was - and then began to despair that anyone would grip the rewrite. Perhaps it would be an idea to have an input from each area of the branch i.e. those who are at JARIC/DHU/Stn/Sqn/HQ int posts so that the blurb is written by people actually in the posts? Of course, I'd expect it to go through the branch editorial process to make sure any submission is 'on song' but it would help to cut out the misunderstanding of what the job is actually about if there are honest descriptions of each aspect of being a Spook.
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