Retention Bonus

[vim_fuego]

The question is, how does the air force stop the flow once they meet the manpower target?

Quite...It's almost as though the target we are hurtling down towards may be a 'false bottom'....Otherwise they would be doing something right??

I've thrown my chicken bones in the air and the scatter pattern says 'More pain to come'...DT_Xtremez_03:

 

[skevans]

Knowing that you are a fireman and not a techie I will limit myself to a small rantet, speaking from personal experience at ISK the two sections with the highest PVR rate at the present are the fire section and the line.

What the firemen have to moan about is above me (no guard/ord sgt duties to name one) but on the line there is plenty.

Constant OOA commitment (as with many RAF sections), rock bottom morale due to working weekend/SAR commitments, constant stby for Ops every weekend, poor management, loss of leave year after year, guard/ord sgt duties disproportionate to our percentage of the station manpower, IRT, IDT, CCS, SSVC, BFBS every time before we traipse out to the gulf for the Xth time BUT the main reason for PVR is the lure of jobs off-shore just along the coast with better pay, less time away even with two weeks on two weeks of shift rota, better management, better promotion prospects and next to no FCUK around factor of when you are at home doing guard etc etc.

To be honest the line at ISK is at the lowest I have ever seen in the short 5 years I have been there. PVRs are flying in at a great rate of knots with no sign of slowing. Every one to a man I have spoken to will not be going past thier 22 even if they get promoted.

Where do we go from here is anyones guess but the place is depressed and getting worse with no sign of getting better soon.

A very depressed and sad 'Get Tae'

I was expecting reasoning of this nature, but sometimes it's worth playing devil's advocate. As you can see I have highlighted a part of the above quote, purely so you can all see where I am coming from with my line of reasoning.

Because I am not a liney or techie of any type I am unaware of how all the recent changes have affected your part of the RAF. Likewise you are unaware of mine. I've never been one for trade bashing, because we are all here for a reason, even if no-one else knows what the reason is.

Having read Get Tae's informative post I can honestly say that the majority of reasons given by him also affect my trade. In fact the only time I have been on a section that is 100% manned is the last 18 months, I am in fact a single man department!

I'm sure that you all realise that I cannot possibly understand your 'moans and groans' without you explaining them to me. All I can see as an outsider looking in is that you have a high number of redundancies so there must be a surplus of you. Incidentally there have been no redundancies in my trade since 1994 when there was a surplus of us (apparently!).

In similarity I know of no one within my trade who plans to continue past their 22, even if promoted. In fact I know of an FS (recently promoted) that is completing 22 years 3 weeks just so that he has two years in rank for his pension!

As an aside, not all firefighters are exempt from SSGF duties. I have to do 21 shifts a year; this is actual shifts, not standown periods. I also know of several stations where the fire crews perform orderly cpl, etc.

 

[Johnny Chiseler]

Quite...It's almost as though the target we are hurtling down towards may be a 'false bottom'....Otherwise they would be doing something right??

I've thrown my chicken bones in the air and the scatter pattern says 'More pain to come'...DT_Xtremez_03:

I think we are being spoon fed these cuts to make the real total easier to swallow (how's the analogy holding up?).

Because I am not a liney or techie of any type I am unaware of how all the recent changes have affected your part of the RAF. Likewise you are unaware of mine. I've never been one for trade bashing, because we are all here for a reason, even if no-one else knows what the reason is.

I'm sure that you all realise that I cannot possibly understand your 'moans and groans' without you explaining them to me. All I can see as an outsider looking in is that you have a high number of redundancies so there must be a surplus of you. Incidentally there have been no redundancies in my trade since 1994 when there was a surplus of us (apparently!).

In similarity I know of no one within my trade who plans to continue past their 22, even if promoted. In fact I know of an FS (recently promoted) that is completing 22 years 3 weeks just so that he has two years in rank for his pension!

It's refreshing to hear someone who would like to hear another opinion to gain a balanced view. click here to see my thread on the x-factor which leads to pensions. Who else is only in it for the pension? Again, referring to Vim's post, are we heading for a 'false bottom' with the numbers? The pension trap is a timebomb, how many guys/gals in your section are waiting for the 22 year point to get out?

 

[Rigga]

GetTae said,
".....BUT the main reason for PVR is the lure of jobs off-shore just along the coast with better pay, less time away even with two weeks on two weeks of shift rota, better management, better promotion prospects and next to no FCUK around factor of when you are at home doing guard etc etc."

Wooaah Tiger!
'Management' in the real world is often much worse because some of them thar managers have been doing it for years - with far less training than yer average Cpl.

Again in the real world, 'Promotion' is by applications for other Jobs - you will hardly find it happening like it does in the RAF! No-one will keep you down to what it says on your Shoulder Tabs, But you will have to apply your own mind to your future, and go for the jobs YOU want, and that you THINK you can do! Even qualifications are only given IF your face fits, and the company NEEDS it. Then you can be Bonded to the company for up to five years.

Money may be good, but, in my situation, I have to work in Manchester away from my home on the East Coast. Luckily I can afford to get a Flat with the wage, but that means spending another grand a month on extra accomodation and travelling. That puts me back down to lower pay levels again, with the added bonus of being away from home 5 days each week. The long term bonus is the investment in an extra flat in a well sought after area.

I don't know how much you guys get now and I do empathise with your OOA and retention problems (I left in '99) - Pilots had the same sort of hassle and look what had to happen for them! - I remember going "D-State" for Pilots! - Trouble is, that sort of reaction from the government won't happen for many years.

Best of Luck whatever you all decide.
Rigga


...on the lighter side - I'd love to work those shifts!

 

[Get Tae]

I was expecting reasoning of this nature, but sometimes it's worth playing devil's advocate.

I was indeed also playing devils advocate Skevans as I am aware of the problems the Firemen/women have too. ISK has had many many PVR's from the fire section and I think are having problems keeping people full stop, maybe they need a retention bonus of some type too?

 

[vim_fuego]

I was indeed also playing devils advocate Skevans as I am aware of the problems the Firemen/women have too. ISK has had many many PVR's from the fire section and I think are having problems keeping people full stop, maybe they need a retention bonus of some type too?

I've often thought ISK needed its own special consideration as its not everyones cup of tea, It a long way from anywhere and it's singuarly type specific so once you get Q'd on them you are stuck (I know....Theres Waddo but few slots there and closely guarded)...At least if you get plonked at Lossie you are Tonka trained and can escape to other Tonka bases...

 

[skevans]

I was indeed also playing devils advocate Skevans as I am aware of the problems the Firemen/women have too. ISK has had many many PVR's from the fire section and I think are having problems keeping people full stop, maybe they need a retention bonus of some type too?

Good god do we have a concensus of opinion here, ring the cathedral bells and celebrate a miracle, techies and non techies unite!!!

Erm ... sorry, too many E-numbers in my breakfast this morning!

Our entire trade has a high PVR rate these days, but I believe some of the blame for it at ISK fire service is down to personalities within the station itself. I guess I will find out after my weeks visit there in September.

How far north!!!

 

[firestorm]

Our entire trade has a high PVR rate these days, but I believe some of the blame for it at ISK fire service is down to personalities within the station itself.

Its been that way for the best part of 20 years. When I PVR'd I had to join the long line of firemen wanting to get out. It was just a dull job I'm afraid, (dull for me and many others, though I guess skevans finds it riveting!)

 

[firestorm]

judging by the amount of time he spends on here, he doesn't seem to have much of a job!DT_Xtremez_28:

I think that comes with being your own boss!

 

[skevans]

Nice work if you can get it!

It certainly is!

In all honesty though I have never surfed the goat during work time. Honest.

However being away from home four nights a week, stuck in a hotel room with only myself for company does give me time in the evenings.