Rules that are actually a load of rubbish and have no back up on paper.

[rest have risen above me]

I thought about putting this thread in the What grips my...... forum but then thought no, perhaps there may be some sensible answers that people can use in their day jobs.

Whilst on a trip and sorting out accommadation for people I was informed by an MT driver SAC that he had to have a single room because he's a driver to which I replied rubbish....and where's that written down? He couldn't say ..as it was it became a non situation and I forgot about it. Then the other day the subject came up in conversation along with other questions that have never been answered. So to start the ball rolling.

Where is it written down that SAC drivers should get a single room so that they are not disturbed?

 

[grumpyoldb]

There used to be something in the UK drivers regulations that a drivers rest period must be undisturbed.
If he/she is trying to sleep with others coming in off the lash, then he/she has a right not to be disturbed.

I stand by to be corrected on this.

 

[Downsizer]

If the rule exists (which I doubt) then I imagine it would be in JSP 800....

 

[Barch]

JSP 375 Vol 2 Leaflet 15 Annexe E

CONTROL OF DRIVERS DRIVING HOURS

DRIVING HOURS

3. No driver is to drive continuously for more than 4 1/2 Hours without a break away from the vehicle.

4. After driving without a break for 4 1/2 Hours a minimum break, away from the vehicle, of 45 minutes is to be taken.

5. Drivers should if practicable take 15 minutes every 2 hours, but must have taken 45 minutes rest after 4.5 hours driving. Each rest period must be at least 15 minutes.

6. A driver should normally not drive for a total of more than 9 hours in a day, although 10 hours may be permitted, but on no more than 2 occasions in any one week.

7. When driving is involved in a person's duty they should not be on duty for more than 12 hours in a day, including driving time.

8. A daily rest period of 11 hours (including one uninterrupted period of at least 8 hours).

Looks like the MT bods have used their own interpretation of the rules.

 

[Dan_Brown]

we used to regularly get 2Mt turning up at our main gate and the ic's would usually carry the order extract to get the single rooms - if none were available they would go and book hotels.

Not sure if this still goes on, but it was certainly common practice late 90's.

 

[vim_fuego]

But what constitutes uninterrupted? It is the same for aircrew as stated in GASO's...There must be a 12 hour rest period of which at least 8 must be uninterrupted...That does not mean a single room is guaranteed...it just means that if I share with a snoring person I can wave my flag in the morning and say I am too tired to fly...and it took some brass cahooneys to do that let me tell you!

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

...and it took some brass cahooneys to do that let me tell you!

It`d take even more to tell you that you were flying anyway.
It only takes balls the first time, once you`re used to making the right decision it comes easier.

 

[vim_fuego]

It`d take even more to tell you that you were flying anyway.
It only takes balls the first time, once you`re used to making the right decision it comes easier.

It happened to me once...in Oman. The power went down at 1800 as we were going to bed to rise at 0300 to go fly. The tin huts did what tin hut do when the AC isn't working and turned into tin ovens (50c+) so most of us dragged beds outside but it was noisy (people crunching on the gravel) and the sand flies began to feast...at midnight with no sleep I went to see the captain who also had failed to rest at all and explained my concerns...I also declared myself and others around me through mutual consent 'unfit to fly' at our advertised times and he agreed and strode off to find the det commander.

This was during the latter part of GW2 so we were flying operational sorties...The camp without the hum of AC was very quiet so it was easy to hear the chewing out my rather weak anitpodean exchange officer captain was getting from the DETCO...It went on for some time then he came and found us sitting in the dark in our chairs outside keeping cool...The DETCO had called him all the names under the sun then explained that some 'special' tasking had come in that equalled or bettered the risk of us going flying in a tired/unfit state. Pressure tumbled downhill and for some reason I folded (those who know me will find that odd). We sat around until the meet time, ate as sugary a breakfast as possible, planned, briefed and walked. All the time I was noticing people dropping stuff, forgetting things and generally not being on the game...I spent a deal of time checking my kit then doing it again which for me is a sure sign I'm tired and doubting myself (I always put stuff in the same pockets and bags for every flight so why check it?).

The adreneline flow of starting engines, checking in on the intercom, getting on the radios and putting on our war faces helped but once airborne and at low level the aircraft was warm...I was guesting on this crew and in fact sqn as a second but the lead was so tired he asked me to stand in which I did as I didn't feel too bad once the sun came up (all those nights where you kick the ar$e out of it and stay out until breakfast were at last paying dividends!). It was soon apparent that this had been a huge mistake...2 hours into a 6-7 hour sortie I was changing operators around every 30 minutes (should be a minimum of every hour) and they were still struggling to keep their eyes open and alert...when the terrifying comment from the flight deck came that in a turn at 200' the co-pilot had dozed off (wasn't in control but still vital at that height) it was time to say 'for the benefit of the tapes I'm calling this dangerous and reccomend we climb for our own safety and give this some thought'. I would have expected some glib comment from that normally but there was no arguement and after a couple of minutes debate we were going home with orders of coffee so strong the spoon should be standing up in it being fulfilled for the jockeys... I definately learned about flying from that experience....

I'm not in now so can talk about it without fear of reprisal...the DETCO had a coach meet us at the aircraft and take us briefly back to our huts to grab some civvies then we were whisked down town to a hotel before we could talk to the other crews about it...I didn't see the DETCO again on my return.

Lesson from this? If you are the operator of anything that can hurt anybody else or yourself not only know the rules but have the conviction and bravery (that I lacked that night) to stand by them!

 

[rest have risen above me]

Seen as this has gone a little aircrew here's another question on entitlements.
Why do Crew get better rations on a trip than supernumery crew? It never happened on Nimrod and Sentry so why are 10s and Tristar different?

 

[Downsizer]

I'm not sure they do anymore... There were a lot of whinges at the AT superhub about 18 months ago because they were being downgraded to pax rations as a cost saving exercise.

 

[rest have risen above me]

I'm not sure they do anymore... There were a lot of whinges at the AT superhub about 18 months ago because they were being downgraded to pax rations as a cost saving exercise.

Definitely not the case from recent experience

 

[Stevienics]

Yes, drivers always waved that regulation, except when on operation when it wasn't and they had to slum it like everyone else.

That said, there were 5-6 Landrovers and 2 four tonners on the MRTs. All the drivers always got 8 hours uninterrupted rest - mostly because they had all usually drunk 8 pints of bitter the night before had been on the hill for 10 hours the next day....no issues at all sleeping.

Coming back on a Sunday evening was a distinctly grey legal area.

 

[GD on Wheels]

The only way you got a single room in my day was if you put your name down on the waiting list for the block that had them.
My first posting found me in a four man room. So even if was on a early job I had to put up with my pi$$ed up room mates coming in at all hours and waking me up. I just told them keep it down and got my head back down. If you where lucky you could move into a single one straight away,as I did when posted to RAFG.

 

[muttywhitedog]

we used to regularly get 2Mt turning up at our main gate and the ic's would usually carry the order extract to get the single rooms - if none were available they would go and book hotels.

Not sure if this still goes on, but it was certainly common practice late 90's.

They tend to sleep in their cabs on long trips. This is quite an emotive subject amongst the drivers at the moment, particularly after one of the young lads lost his life last year in Italy. Once upon a time, they got "cab rates", but now they get nothing, and are then expected to drive a large killing machine the next day as the quality of sleep in a layby is questionable to say the least.

 

[I`m Ron Burgundy?]

If I had it my way everyone would get a single room to give them a chance of getting a decent night's sleep....but the military seem to love bunging everyone in together like pigs.

 

[Joe_90]

They tend to sleep in their cabs on long trips. This is quite an emotive subject amongst the drivers at the moment, particularly after one of the young lads lost his life last year in Italy. Once upon a time, they got "cab rates", but now they get nothing, and are then expected to drive a large killing machine the next day as the quality of sleep in a layby is questionable to say the least.

Plenty of civvy drivers do it without mishap. If they'd tried harder in school they could have got a different trade.

 

[Stevienics]

AS it happens, sleeping in the cab, even on the cot, does not legally constitute 8 hours uninterrupted rest. It would never stand up in court.

 

[Barch]

But does rest equal sleep?

 

[robson]

Plenty of civvy drivers do it without mishap. If they'd tried harder in school they could have got a different trade.

Why would we want to do that, im paid exactly the same as a techie and get given an abundance of civilian quals that can serve me very well on leaving the service!!!

 

[Trusty Adjusty]

Why would we want to do that, im paid exactly the same as a techie and get given an abundance of civilian quals that can serve me very well on leaving the service!!!

Dont forget the job satisfaction and sense of pride you must get from driving the minibus to MQ's everyday DT_Xtremez_30: mum and dad must be SO proud...........