serious question

[3wheeledtechie]

Correct. No one is denying that suppliers employed on fuel duties do not have flight safety responsibilities, the point is that the vast majority of actions undertaken by technicians have direct consequences for flight safety if not performed correctly, either as stated in the AP, or out of sequence, or if there was a seemingly minor omission or deviation from the correct procedure.

It's not so much daily life or death decisions that techies are responsible for (indies aside, but thats an SNCO responsibility), but daily tasks, which although they may be routine to us, if performed negligently or incorrectly, can easily lead to a smoking hole in the ground.

 

[muttywhitedog]

as a cpl if i sign the f700 for the last servicing on a particular aircraft i am signing to say that that aircraft is fit to fly and am therefor responsible if anything goes wrong!
flight servicings include refuelling and vital pre flight checks carried out by amm's/servicing crews and as a supervisor make me directly responsibe for making sure those actions are carried out correctly.
how much more repsonsibility do you need??

Well, how about paying TG1 & 2 Cpls more than the airships? Would that make you feel more valued?

 

[Bitburger]

Well, how about paying TG1 & 2 Cpls more than the airships? Would that make you feel more valued?

No I am sure they would settle for getting more pay than fcuking adminers, rocks and bean heaters.

 

[Webbo]

No I am sure they would settle for getting more pay than fcuking adminers, rocks and bean heaters.

And for AMMs to be on the Higher Pay Band.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

And for AMMs to be on the Higher Pay Band.

Quite right. That one's a true scandal, and will lead to the RAF not getting the best of what's available into the aircraft trades. If the RAF isn't about operating aircraft to project air power then what the feck is the point of it. This is why I say the leadership has its head up its arse.

 

[muttywhitedog]

No I am sure they would settle for getting more pay than fcuking adminers, rocks and bean heaters.

If thats the case, and these guys want the going rate then:

http://www.baa.com/portal/page/Corporate^Careers^Search+our+Jobs/

seems to pay decently.

Unfortunately, the going rate for TG 1&2 personnel in the RAF is sadly below this rate. That is not the fault of any other trade that shares your salary scale, so bleating at me and my ilk will not get you a £45K salary.

Until you and the rest of your trade walk en-masse, this will continue to be the case. However, for every PVR case, there are at least 8 "Proud to Serve Master" sat in that crewroom who will give a little more for the cause.

You are being taken for mugs. Deal with it.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

BAA don't operate airplanes, they run the facilities aircraft operate from, you tube. Any monkey can be a despatcher, its probably possible to even train up an ex-shiney.DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Mug?]

Off track?

Off track?

We don't get more pay for responsibilities! Flight safety or otherwise?
Thats what the rank structure was there for surely?

What the high and low band should represent is the comparission to Civvie jobs and the pay needed to attract the right people.

Technicians in TG 1/2,3 and specialists in the other TGs got the high pay cause they are more skilled jobs, had higher entry requirements and required a higher caliber of person.

It pained me to see most of my trades jobs being civvied off and the pay people were getting for those jobs was far in excess of mine, yet it was cheaper to pay them to do it than employ me to do it.

The same will happen in admin when it turns out that civvies can do the job better and cheaper than a £30K cpl

 

[metimmee]

We don't get more pay for responsibilities! Flight safety or otherwise?
Thats what the rank structure was there for surely?

What the high and low band should represent is the comparission to Civvie jobs and the pay needed to attract the right people.

Technicians in TG 1/2,3 and specialists in the other TGs got the high pay cause they are more skilled jobs, had higher entry requirements and required a higher caliber of person.

It pained me to see most of my trades jobs being civvied off and the pay people were getting for those jobs was far in excess of mine, yet it was cheaper to pay them to do it than employ me to do it.

The same will happen in admin when it turns out that civvies can do the job better and cheaper than a £30K cpl

This has surely got to be a danger for TG17 in the medium term.

 

[Cooheed]

This has surely got to be a danger for TG17 in the medium term.

Who'll do A/J1/DAG on ops though? Double hat other personnel? Now there's a thought...:0

 

[metimmee]

Who'll do A/J1/DAG on ops though? Double hat other personnel? Now there's a thought...:0

I'm thinking Tactical Admin Wing DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[True Blue Jack]

The same will happen in admin when it turns out that civvies can do the job better and cheaper than a £30K cpl

You're 15 years too late, which is why Accts Flts, Registries, Travel Cells, Wks Svcs and Education Centres are predominantly staffed by civil servants.

Not to mention JPAC, of course. DT_Xtremez_17:

 

[busby1971]

Down Down Down (TG17 Establishment that is)

Down Down Down (TG17 Establishment that is)

You're 15 years too late, which is why Accts Flts, Registries, Travel Cells, Wks Svcs and Education Centres are predominantly staffed by civil servants.

Not to mention JPAC, of course. DT_Xtremez_17:

1989 TG 17 Establishment around 4,900 (about 5% of the RAF)

2008 TG 17 Establishment around 1,300 (about 3% of the RAF)

So us adminers have lost around two 5ths of our manning so far as a proportion of trade. TG 17 have been cut cut and cut again and will probably get get cut again in the future.

Anyway this is way off topic, I don't think anybody (pilots/wso and gnrs exempted of course) make life and death decisions, however, there may be life or death consequences if certain trades don't do their job properly.

 

[Realist78]

1989 TG 17 Establishment around 4,900 (about 5% of the RAF)

2008 TG 17 Establishment around 1,300 (about 3% of the RAF)

So us adminers have lost around two 5ths of our manning so far as a proportion of trade. TG 17 have been cut cut and cut again and will probably get get cut again in the future.

Anyway this is way off topic, I don't think anybody (pilots/wso and gnrs exempted of course) make life and death decisions, however, there may be life or death consequences if certain trades don't do their job properly.

Generally speaking, they don't, any bomb dropping (for example) decision is usually directed remotely.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

We don't get more pay for responsibilities! Flight safety or otherwise?
Thats what the rank structure was there for surely?

What the high and low band should represent is the comparission to Civvie jobs and the pay needed to attract the right people.

Technicians in TG 1/2,3 and specialists in the other TGs got the high pay cause they are more skilled jobs, had higher entry requirements and required a higher caliber of person.

It pained me to see most of my trades jobs being civvied off and the pay people were getting for those jobs was far in excess of mine, yet it was cheaper to pay them to do it than employ me to do it.

The same will happen in admin when it turns out that civvies can do the job better and cheaper than a £30K cpl

You're looking at the wrong figure. The cost to the RAF is not the individual's salary, its the capitation rate. Which is why civvies can get paid a higher salary, because the RAF doesn't have to provide all the other benefits.

 

[Rigga]

To put it right into the Shineys knowledge...

Laarbruch early 80's
A Neddy F16 is "FOD'd" on start-up by a Clipboard being sucked into the Intake. On investigation the Clipboard is found to have been the Chief's (who told one of his crew to keep schtumm about it!)

The Cheif is found guilty and reduced to JT.

How many Shineys have been reduced to the Ranks for leaving a paperclip in the wrong place?

End of argument, I believe.

 

[busby1971]

To put it right into the Shineys knowledge...

Laarbruch early 80's
A Neddy F16 is "FOD'd" on start-up by a Clipboard being sucked into the Intake. On investigation the Clipboard is found to have been the Chief's (who told one of his crew to keep schtumm about it!)

The Cheif is found guilty and reduced to JT.

How many Shineys have been reduced to the Ranks for leaving a paperclip in the wrong place?

End of argument, I believe.

Was the Chiefy demoted for the clipboard or for the fact that he coerced others (which also implies he might have lied too) into lying to cover his guilt?

 

[GimpyBoy]

To put it right into the Shineys knowledge...

Laarbruch early 80's
A Neddy F16 is "FOD'd" on start-up by a Clipboard being sucked into the Intake. On investigation the Clipboard is found to have been the Chief's (who told one of his crew to keep schtumm about it!)

The Cheif is found guilty and reduced to JT.

How many Shineys have been reduced to the Ranks for leaving a paperclip in the wrong place?

End of argument, I believe.

None because quite possibly we have the integrity to fess up.

(think that might have been a bad example to use TBH)

 

[True Blue Jack]

How many Shineys have been reduced to the Ranks for leaving a paperclip in the wrong place?

I know of one who was jailed after putting a few grand in the wrong place - his own bank account. There was probably a paperclip involved.

 

[GimpyBoy]

I know of one who was jailed after putting a few grand in the wrong place - his own bank account. There was probably a paperclip involved.

Off Topici think it was a supecrclip rather than your bog standard paperclip.