Service Complaint Advice..

[Spammy2505]

Howdy Folks, ... I am sure by now people have noticed the rants on the TG4 Cpl-Sgt Thread and I am one of the fellows who has a good reason to rant..........The Back Story is as Follows: I was posted out from a Licolnshire Fighter Base on February 14th 2011 down to the West Midlands Training Base. My SNCO at the time was told he could not write an "On Posting" SJAR as I had only done 5 1/2 months on unit in that reporting period, (3 years working with him in total)... At my new unit the SNCO nominated to write my SJAR got a posting notice so had to write my SJAR early, (4 Months after being posted in).. I mentioned it at the time to me 2nd RO who said it would be fine after some discussion, but it shouldn't matter too much as I had been picked up on the previous board...... When the board was cut in December I spoke to a Well Known WO here and he asked all the right questions within PSF and they said it was fair timing..... After I subsequently Plummeted down the list by 64 places on this board I went to see the Chief Clerk who stated the SJAR should never have been written at that time and was one of the worst written SJARs he had seen due to the Lack of Examples, (4 months in a brand new job ??)... The Chief Clerk said I had tgrounds for a Service Complaint but I have to state what I want the outcome to be...Is it possible to get that SJAR Ignored for any subsequent Boards as I only have 2 Promotion Boards left, Or should I just make lots of noise until someone sugests what can be done???......Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated as otherwise I think my carreer has been torpedoed by One bad 1st RO and some bad advice from a 2nd....Cheers...... Spamout............... (Apolgies for the line and text spacing, DII doesn't work very well on the Goat)

 

[Elvis the Pelvis]

Howdy Folks, ... I am sure by now people have noticed the rants on the TG4 Cpl-Sgt Thread and I am one of the fellows who has a good reason to rant..........The Back Story is as Follows: I was posted out from a Licolnshire Fighter Base on February 14th 2011 down to the West Midlands Training Base. My SNCO at the time was told he could not write an "On Posting" SJAR as I had only done 5 1/2 months on unit in that reporting period, (3 years working with him in total)... At my new unit the SNCO nominated to write my SJAR got a posting notice so had to write my SJAR early, (4 Months after being posted in).. I mentioned it at the time to me 2nd RO who said it would be fine after some discussion, but it shouldn't matter too much as I had been picked up on the previous board...... When the board was cut in December I spoke to a Well Known WO here and he asked all the right questions within PSF and they said it was fair timing..... After I subsequently Plummeted down the list by 64 places on this board I went to see the Chief Clerk who stated the SJAR should never have been written at that time and was one of the worst written SJARs he had seen due to the Lack of Examples, (4 months in a brand new job ??)... The Chief Clerk said I had tgrounds for a Service Complaint but I have to state what I want the outcome to be...Is it possible to get that SJAR Ignored for any subsequent Boards as I only have 2 Promotion Boards left, Or should I just make lots of noise until someone sugests what can be done???......Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated as otherwise I think my carreer has been torpedoed by One bad 1st RO and some bad advice from a 2nd....Cheers...... Spamout............... (Apolgies for the line and text spacing, DII doesn't work very well on the Goat)

Nothing in the above text explains why you did not challenge the SJAR at the time - or were you equally negligent with the assumption that you had already been promoted?

On the subject of service complaints - my advice is be wary of Chf Clks - they do like to encourage people to raise them in my experience. Ultimately the RAF today loves to 'empower' its individuals and will simply point to the fact that you could have read the JSP yourself and if it says its ok, then its ok.

Have you reviewed the JSP on this point? its the only thing that will matter in the end.....

Good Luck, I guess...

 

[rugby then work]

What did the chf clk say were the gounds for the service complaint? The badly written SJAR or the fact that your 1st RO had only known you for 4 months?

 

[Spammy2505]

@RTW. Both mate but mostly the Timing.

@Elvis. I discussed it with the 2nd RO at the time and was informed it would be ok, (I guess I was too negligent and believed a highly respected SNCO with 30+ years experience, entirely my fault then I guess!)

Spamout

 

[rugby then work]

There's no way an SJAR should have been completed by someone that had known you for 4 months. If necassary it should have been delayed or completed by someone higher in the chain of command.As for what outcome you would be looking for from a SC, and I'm a bit unsure if this would work after the time interval, but could you go for an insert slip from the previous RO that you worked for in lincolnshire?You'd need advice from a scribbly on that one.

 

[Elvis the Pelvis]

@RTW. Both mate but mostly the Timing.

@Elvis. I discussed it with the 2nd RO at the time and was informed it would be ok, (I guess I was too negligent and believed a highly respected SNCO with 30+ years experience, entirely my fault then I guess!)

Spamout

Of course I am not saying it is all your fault. I am simply trying to warn you that if you decided to submit the complaint, this is the sort of counter claim that they will bring up. I agree that 4 months is not long enough but at the end of the day, its whats written down in the JSP that will count - and that is ALL that will count. If it says that it was ok, they really wont care about your complaint.

If however, they are in the wrong - all power to you and hang em.

 

[Spammy2505]

Cheers Elvis..

I am still in a bit of a mood so my last post may have read a bit like a knee jerk backlash.

Thanks for the advice folks!!

Spamout

 

[patch111]

Good luck Spammy - I hope this works out for you.
I would be interested in how you get on as I am in a strangely similar situation.

Regards

 

[Dazzy26]

From experience and as already stated, you need to identify exactly where the JSP has been contravened and this will be the basis of your SC. The outcome you want needs to be clearly defined. ie if the JSP minimum time to write an SJAR has not been adhered to (and you can prove it), then you can ask for the SJAR to be released back to your RO’s now they have had the minimum time to gain knowledge of you (which need Stn Cdr’s approval I believe),and then request retrospective pre-boarding/promotion boarding.OC HR or OC P1 are normally POC for Service Complaints and they will assist you in gathering evidence and will (in my experience) discuss the issue (mediate) with Air Command to see if there is a compromise before the SC is raised. No matter what though, if you feel you have grounds then they cannot stop you submitting an SC and then it is the legal folks that will decide if you have a case or not.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I was posted out from a Licolnshire Fighter Base on February 14th 2011 down to the West Midlands Training Base. My SNCO at the time was told he could not write an "On Posting" SJAR as I had only done 5 1/2 months on unit in that reporting period

Its too late for you, but for anyone in this position in the future I would be pushing back to ACOS Manning to have the posting date put back so that you have done 6 months and 1 day at your old unit and will therefore get an on-posting SJAR from your old unit, which will be a damn sight better than one done at a new unit when you are finding your feet. These guys are "Career Managers" and its a small, but very significant, way of managing your career.

Before anyone argues that it would mean a gapped post - Chf Clks can locally arrange for an individual to arrive up to 28 days early or late, so in this case your assignment date would be 2 March, but a local arrangement means you report for duty on 14 Feb. But the key is getting your assignment date changed so that an SJAR has to be completed.

 

[OK..Igiveup]

Feel your pain

Feel your pain

Is it possible to get that SJAR Ignored for any subsequent Boards as I only have 2 Promotion Boards left, Or should I just make lots of noise until someone sugests what can be done???......Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated as otherwise I think my carreer has been torpedoed by One bad 1st RO and some bad advice from a 2nd....Cheers...... Spamout............... (Apolgies for the line and text spacing, DII doesn't work very well on the Goat)

Feel your pain, I had the same, year before though. Well within the original quota, quietly confident given the previous board had ran over due to turn downs, wanted 80 reached 105 if I recall.
Poor 1st RO assessment on posting, 2nd RO lied to me about trying to change it after he told me he thought it should be better, kicked up a bit of a stink, asked about service complaint as the 2nd RO had lied, told to wind my neck in if I want to get anything out of this report. email chain to prove it all. Asked about getting that report kicked out as other 5 were excellent, but no joy.
As said was comfortable about being picked up anyway. So let it lie.

Then we had royal wedding and the desk went on TV and some charity ride so promotions stopped early. Only to see 30 immediate released off the next board!!!!
Nothing I can do now should have persisted at the time etc etc.
1 OOA and load of courses later I drop 100 places.

Thing is though this 1st RO is still screwing people over and I should have done something about it but was powerless.

 

[Soon To Leave]

The SJAR system relies too much on the writing quality and integrity of the 1st RO and seldom have a met 2nd and 3rd ROs with the gonads and the will to put things right.
In your case, the 2nd RO should have become your 1st RO and consulted with your 1st RO at your previous posting to gain a view based on 12 months work.

I'm sorry it's happened to you as I'm sorry it's happened to me and many others.

I think we should have a promotion system that is far more objective and competence based. After all, promotion is about you, and not your 1st RO!

 

[FOGHORN LEGHORN]

STL I've said it before on other threads and I'll say it again. It's not the system it's the implementation that's at fault. It's far to easy to sit there and blame others. A SJAR is only as good as the subject. You don't have to accept your SJAR. People need to start taking ownership of assessments that effect their careers. If you don't understand the system then enquire about a course or find out the details. The information is out there. It's too late and not good enough to bemoan a poor 1st RO for 'ruining your career'. IMO

 

[Puma]

It can be difficult when all your superiors are reluctant to have a poorly written SJAR rewritten. I think we've all had some experience of it to varying degree's.

I would try to be sure of your case, it could be argued that working for someone for 5 months day in day out would be enough to write an SJAR.

However if you only bump into the first RO in the crewroom occasionally your case may be stronger, I think you need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about - which will be difficult to find in the RAF these days.

 

[Soon To Leave]

FL
I know the system alright! I've pointed it out to enough 1st RO's in my time. What do mean by 'take ownership', write it myself? Insist my first RO goes on a SJAR writing course? Threaten to punch their lights out?

Please give an example of how you successfully got a 1st RO to change poorly written drivel into a masterpiece of prose. If you have a 1st RO that's prepared to listen I suppose that's a start.

 

[Weebl]

FL
I know the system alright! I've pointed it out to enough 1st RO's in my time. What do mean by 'take ownership', write it myself? Insist my first RO goes on a SJAR writing course? Threaten to punch their lights out?

Please give an example of how you successfully got a 1st RO to change poorly written drivel into a masterpiece of prose. If you have a 1st RO that's prepared to listen I suppose that's a start.

Hopefully, if you are willing to have an input that would be a massive start. I have written lots of SJARs in my time, and I always asked the subject for a 'boast sheet' before I started, so they could let me know the outside activities they had been involved in that I might not know about, as well as reminding me about things that they had done through the year which would make them stand out. It may be hard to believe but if you are writing 10 SAC SJARs than it can be quite difficult to remember everything good they have done that reporting period.

Without fail, the guys that moan that the SJAR is not good enough, have failed to complete the sheet I gave them, and I have also had people moaning that I have not included a secondary duty that I did not know about and they did not bother to tell me. The moaners are also the guys who never filled out their own bits of the SJAR without prodding, and the times I have had to rewrite those as well because they do a slapdash job, and then whinge because I have only rated them as a B- or whatever. (that is not the reason obviously, but the type of person who cannot be arsed to devote a suitable period of time and effort into their own SJAR tend to be B- and below types)

Tell your SNCO what makes you one of the people who is competitive, give him stuff to work with, give him examples of where you have gone above and beyond. A very good SJAR is the easiest type to write, but only if you are not struggling for examples of why they deserve the superlatives you are using.

You could argue that the guy should know all this, but from my experience the average SNCO does not have the time these days to devote to report writing that he should have, the more info you can give him before he starts writing, the easier it is for him to weave that into a good report.

 

[Soon To Leave]

Sounds like you know what you are doing!

 

[Mug?]

bet you are the weak RO!

bet you are the weak RO!

STL I've said it before on other threads and I'll say it again. It's not the system it's the implementation that's at fault. It's far to easy to sit there and blame others. A SJAR is only as good as the subject. You don't have to accept your SJAR. People need to start taking ownership of assessments that effect their careers. If you don't understand the system then enquire about a course or find out the details. The information is out there. It's too late and not good enough to bemoan a poor 1st RO for 'ruining your career'. IMO

stfu Nothing more.....

 

[FOGHORN LEGHORN]

Put simply I presented my last 1st RO with evidence of times I had shown the qualities set down by the SJAR. I printed off the scores page and had a separate example for every section. For each example I also explained in detail what I had achieved, how I had achieved it and what qualities I had shown and developed.

I also presented areas I felt I could improve. When I had my first interview with my 1st RO we discussed them and clarified the pertinent points. I had attended both the 'influencing your SJAR' and 'SJAR writing courses' so was fully aware of what I needed to do and how it should be presented. Certainly opened my eyes. The SJAR that was written very much along the lines of what I had presented. I had pretty much written my own SJAR.

I was promoted off the next board when I had been previously told I had no chance and to focus on resettlement. That would've been the easy choice but I chose instead to understand and utilise the system that was being used to ascertain my potential and suitability for promotion. Glad I did.

 

[FOGHORN LEGHORN]

stfu Nothing more.....

Nothing more required. Great input to the thread.