Service Transport v Own Car

[Mightierthan]

Business insurance is required if one has to drive in order to carry out their business. It is not required to travel somewhere in order to carry out that business; this is commuting.

I can't access the JSP at the moment to see the wording for myself, but if you use your car to go on a course, the only insurance you need is SDP plus commuting - and as a few people have pointed out, the 'commuting' part is usually a free 'add-on' and will also often come with the phrase 'driving in association with the business'.

 

[ChrisBrit81]

Also I get alot more pleasure raggin the hell out of a car that isn't mine!! (Joke) DT_Xtremez_42:

Personally I tend not to do that with the MT cars that stay on unit, but in general if I get an external hire car I must admit that it doesn't get the same care and affection that my own vehicle would on the same journey.

I would always prefer to take my own car. If only for the reason that I can have some sort of freedom whilst on the course... if I wan't to go home at the weekend, I can... if I want to pop into town, I can... and if I want to be the designated driver for the end of course pi$$ up, then I can.

JSP 752 requires business insurance for courses.

What about medical appointments?

 

[Sniffer]

Taken from the Confused website so doesnt refer to a specific policy or company:

Commuting = this covers you to drive back and forth to a permanent place of work. Please note that travelling to a railway station, where you park your car, is classed as commuting.

Business = this covers you to use the car in connection with your job, driving to different sites, travelling to training courses or prearranged meetings away from your normal place of work.

Linky Thing (about 3/4 of the way down the page under "what are the different use types)

 

[ChrisBrit81]

Just looked at the JSP, it says that if you're a service person using your private motor vehicle for authorised duty journeys then you must ensure that your vehicle is insured for business use.

So regardless of what any of us argue as to what is defined as Business or Commuting, it's in the JSP to have Business to claim MMA so that's what you must have.

I think the difference between travelling to a course and travelling to and from work is the fact that you don't claim MMA to get to and from your permanent workplace. There are other allowances with different conditions such as Home to Duty and Get you Home, for those types of duty travel.

 

[GoonerFoa]

When you use a service car though, dont they scrutinise the mileage. So no popping into the nearest town in the evening or taking a shortcut via home on the way back to your unit as it bumps up the mileage past what they expect you to drive.

I'm not looking forward to getting audited though. Not sure I have the extra insurance and not sure I have ever had a refusal from MT, just taken my own car and gone (I have only claimed for the work journeys though, none of this crusing round random towns I like to do).

 

[duffman]

When you use a service car though, dont they scrutinise the mileage. So no popping into the nearest town in the evening or taking a shortcut via home on the way back to your unit as it bumps up the mileage past what they expect you to drive.

Normally you have to hand it back in. It's two one ways, however many a time MT claim you will get another for the way back as the hire car company will take it back. Many a time though I've had the same car back with zero miles added. Must be quite a cost to hire a car for 14 days and have it sat idle for 12 of those.

 

[ChrisBrit81]

That happened to me too, went on a 4 day course to Wycombe. Parked the hire car (fiat punto) in the carpark and handed the keys/paperwork to their MT Control. 4 days later they handed me back the exact same paperwork (completely unmodified) and the keys to the same car that had been sat in the carpark all week doing NOTHING and earning ZERO money for the hire company.

 

[Sniffer]

Technically, if you refer back to my earlier post, if you do not have Business Class Insurance and you use your car for travel to a course, and you happen to have an accident, then not being able to claim MMA is the least of your worries.

Insurance companies are not known to hand over money without a fight, so be very careful. The definitions of each type of cover are very clear.

Travel to a course is not commuting as it is not your PERMANENT place of work.

 

[effinhell]

Technically, if you refer back to my earlier post, if you do not have Business Class Insurance and you use your car for travel to a course, and you happen to have an accident, then not being able to claim MMA is the least of your worries.

Insurance companies are not known to hand over money without a fight, so be very careful. The definitions of each type of cover are very clear.

Travel to a course is not commuting as it is not your PERMANENT place of work.

...like you would tell them "I was on my way to another camp for a course/work....."?

...more like "I was off to see my sister in...." for eg!

Get your point but how would they know?

 

[Sniffer]

The top and bottom of it is, the RAF have put the business cover requirement in place to ensure that you dont have to be telling porkies and therefore commit insurance fraud, should the worst happen.

Bottom line is, if you want to use you own vehicle, get business insurance.

Incidentally, over the last 6 years I have never had to pay any extra for business cover for both myself and spouse and I change my insurer every year.

 

[raflad67]

I have just done a quote using all the same car & personal details, one for Social, Domestic & Pleasure + Commuting and the other with Business Use added and it changes by a massive £2.56!!!

So if you think you may need it, just get it with the lowest mileage for business (1000 miles I think). It's worth it!!

Not sure if you can just add it halfway through but I guess you will be able to.

 

[RAF Bird]

I added mine to my insurance about a month ago it didn't cost a single penny and they even sent out new paperwork at no extra cost. easy peasy and to be honest it saves arguing with the claims clerk over something that is with most companies free.

 

[Sniffer]

It does amaze me when I hear people getting their knickers in a twist when they hear that they have got to have business cover. (Even recently despite the fact that this has been an MOD requirement for a number of years). They rant and rave about how wrong it is and why they dont see why they should have to.

Only for them to come in the next day, pleased as punch, saying that they contacted their insurer and it cost them nowt!

So why all the F**king fuss then sunshine? DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[RAF Bird]

It does amaze me when I hear people getting their knickers in a twist when they hear that they have got to have business cover. (Even recently despite the fact that this has been an MOD requirement for a number of years). They rant and rave about how wrong it is and why they dont see why they should have to.

Only for them to come in the next day, pleased as punch, saying that they contacted their insurer and it cost them nowt!

So why all the F**king fuss then sunshine? DT_Xtremez_26:

I dont think people are kicking up a fuss because they have to have it but more because the military use it as an excuse not to pay you what you are entitled to. If they were checking your insurance to make sure that you had the appropriate insurance as they were concerned for us then we'd all probably be very happy but they only like to check our insurance AFTER we have done said journey and we are trying to claim for it!!

 

[Sniffer]

But to be fair RAF Bird, it is set out in the JSP as a requirement. If people then choose to ignore it then that is their own fault surely.

I guess by paying out the RAF would then be seen to condone the breaking of the law, which driving without the correct insurance would be.

As for checking before, that is not HR's/MTs responsibilty and unfortunately cold hard cash is a great motivator. I bet they dont try to claim again without having the correct insurance.

 

[monobrow]

In my eyes, the crux of the annoyance factor is that I can be trusted to sign a jet servicable for 100 people to fly in, but can't be trusted to make a fuel claim.

Yes, it is a percentage of claims that get audited, but if I understood one bloke right, he has to get an e-mail from an estate agents to prove he was looking at houses on resettlement. Awesome!

 

[RAF Bird]

But to be fair RAF Bird, it is set out in the JSP as a requirement. If people then choose to ignore it then that is their own fault surely.

I guess by paying out the RAF would then be seen to condone the breaking of the law, which driving without the correct insurance would be.

As for checking before, that is not HR's/MTs responsibilty and unfortunately cold hard cash is a great motivator. I bet they dont try to claim again without having the correct insurance.

Fair points there mate. Ah well not for me to care about as I have the insurance and I also always take MT... much better than using my own vehicle.

 

[R_Squared]

But to be fair RAF Bird, it is set out in the JSP as a requirement. If people then choose to ignore it then that is their own fault surely.

To be fair, people don't deliberately 'ignore' the JSP, they probably don't spend hours wading through it to find all these little 'gotcha's until it's too late.

I guess by paying out the RAF would then be seen to condone the breaking of the law, which driving without the correct insurance would be.

Only because they demand that you do so, and then hide the small print in "easily accessible documents".

As for checking before, that is not HR's/MTs responsibilty and unfortunately cold hard cash is a great motivator. I bet they dont try to claim again without having the correct insurance.

That is why TG17 have such a hard time endearing themselves to just about anyone who has dealings with them.
The "It's all your own fault you should have checked before hand" attitude is not helpful, and frankly bl00dy annoying.

It is people's money we're talking about, they are out of pocket and they may have families to look after, so your "great motivator" comment is a little trite.

 

[Omerta]

Taken from the Confused website so doesnt refer to a specific policy or company:

Commuting = this covers you to drive back and forth to a permanent place of work. Please note that travelling to a railway station, where you park your car, is classed as commuting.

Business = this covers you to use the car in connection with your job, driving to different sites, travelling to training courses or prearranged meetings away from your normal place of work.

Linky Thing (about 3/4 of the way down the page under "what are the different use types)

I Guess it all depends on which company you're with,

Q:

Am I covered for commuting?
A:

You can use your vehicle to drive to and from a permanent place of work. To use your vehicle to travel to and from different places of work will not cost you anything. This is provided as standard if you buy your policy online. If you called for a quote or are uncertain please contact us for confirmation.

Taken from direct line.

http://directline.metafaq.com/templ...:searchString=$&id=H8I7ER0M14R868NIV3599F0UAU

So i am insured to travel to a course, but not allowed to claim for petrol according to the JSP??

 

[Stevienics]

Not sure if you can just add it halfway through but I guess you will be able to.

You can in most, and I have.

As a different reference point, like most sensible people I turned down the company car and went for the money so I didn't have to pay that fat jock any more than I absolutey had to.

I use my own shed, but my company now insists that to claim mileage it is a requirement to scan Registration, Tax disc, Insurance and MOT and e mail these to the finance administrator as par tof a duty of care - so they are constantly current.

No scans, no claims. It makes sense because if I am travelling to an airport and shunt an ambulance full of cute babies, their reputation doesn't suffer through me not being insured for it.

.....and commuting doesn't cut it. Needs "in connection with business".