SJAR/Insert Slip Question

[Smeddley]

Hi all,

I have a question I'm hoping some of you scribblies or seniors experienced with the SJAR system can help answer.

I received an SJAR on posting (6 mths and 1 week into assessment period), which I understand is the only SJAR I will receive for the year.

The Question is, am I entitled to an insert slip from my new Unit (for which I will have worked 5 mths and 3 weeks) to go into that SJAR?

If it makes a difference, my new post is, I believe, classed as 'out of trade' for me.

The reason I ask is that after this assessment i only have enough time left in for one more,but that would never hit the board in time for my end of service date.

I believe there is occasion for insert slips if you have more than one commanding officer, but I'm not sure if that fits my scenario (2 CO's but at different Units and roles).

Many thanks for any advice.

 

[tommo9999]

No you won't. The on-posting SJAR will count as your annual.

 

[Smeddley]

Cheers Tommo,

I was aware I would only be getting the one (posting) SJAR, but somebody mentioned that there may be a way of being reported on for the other 5+months by way of an insert added to this posting SJAR.

(It seems I'm not the only guy wondering about this, as a mate told me he's in exactly the same position.)

I take it then there is no provision for this?
Seems a bit harsh if not.

 

[Gone 2 the Darkside]

If you're near an intranet terminal the gen you need is in Chap 5 of JSP757. Doesn't look like an insert slip is appropriate in this instance according to the good book. Having said that I have seen one used in this situation in the past. Your appraisal administrator will be able to advise you further.

 

[Smeddley]

Cheers G2TDS,

I'm on leave for the next week, so will have to chase up further when I get back.

I did notice something about a MTOS insert in the JSP (More Than One Superior), could anyone advise wether or not this would apply in my circumstance.

I would like to be genned up as much as I can prior to having a debate with my civvie appraisal clerk.

 

[Gone 2 the Darkside]

The way I read it is that MTOS refers to having responsibility to more than one superior at the same time. One of them acts as 1RO and the other submits an insert slip, especially where they can illustrate different skills in the same reporting period.

However, as I said I have seen an SJAR in which the subject's previous boss submitted an insert slip, so it's not impossible. As always JSPs can be open to interpretation and your new 1RO could probably push it if they felt they had something significant to add to your current report.

 

[raflad67]

No you won't. The on-posting SJAR will count as your annual.

Question has been answered above! DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Boarderlyne]

The way I read it is that MTOS refers to having responsibility to more than one superior at the same time. One of them acts as 1RO and the other submits an insert slip, especially where they can illustrate different skills in the same reporting period.

However, as I said I have seen an SJAR in which the subject's previous boss submitted an insert slip, so it's not impossible. As always JSPs can be open to interpretation and your new 1RO could probably push it if they felt they had something significant to add to your current report.

MTOS would only be used if you had more than one boss over one period. So for your SJAR on posting, it would be appropriate if you had been covering two jobs at the same time eg SNCO P1 and SNCO Media Ops and you had been reporting to two bosses in that time. The only other time I have seen it used in anger is if your boss is posted out during your reporting period and they both wanted to 'big' you up for the board, so that both said you were fantastic.

 

[fed_up_scribbly]

As Tommo has already said, your On Posting report will be used as your Annual for this reporting period. Your next appraisal will be in approx 18 months time, i.e when you revert to your normal reporting date. No insert this year I'm afraid. May seem harsh but that's the system....

 

[Zeebad]

As Tommo has already said, your On Posting report will be used as your Annual for this reporting period. Your next appraisal will be in approx 18 months time, i.e when you revert to your normal reporting date. No insert this year I'm afraid. May seem harsh but that's the system....

That implies you should put up with it. As far as I am concerned it is service complaint time. Smeddley has been disadvantaged; he has had half the time to augment his achievements therefore he has not got the same hitting power on his SJAR for the subsequent PSB; which means, most likely B candidate. 757 states: insert slip if RO changes, its integrity is brought into question because this does not commutate. Means a new RO is not responsible for an input (due to end of tour - in this case half the RP = not fair). That means that Smeddley's SJAR is more about the compilation than the subject: hence the questionable integrity.

 

[True Blue Jack]

That implies you should put up with it. As far as I am concerned it is service complaint time. Smeddley has been disadvantaged; he has had half the time to augment his achievements therefore he has not got the same hitting power on his SJAR for the subsequent PSB; which means, most likely B candidate. 757 states: insert slip if RO changes, its integrity is brought into question because this does not commutate. Means a new RO is not responsible for an input (due to end of tour - in this case half the RP = not fair). That means that Smeddley's SJAR is more about the compilation than the subject: hence the questionable integrity.

If Smeddley were to get 2 appraisals during this reporting period, that would give him an unfair advantage over all the other candidates in the field. I'm sure it would then be Service complaint time as far as they are concerned too.

How about the guy who is posted 5 months into the reporting period? He will get no recognition for the last 5 months in the job in which he was experienced but his first 7 months learning the new job will be reported upon. Would that also be a reason for a Service complaint?

Although we talk about a 'reporting year', one of the fundamental principles of the appraisal system is that 6 months' knowledge of the subject is enough for an RO to be able to write fairly and accurately. There are holes in the system, I agree, but I would say an individual is more likely to be disadvantaged by the report writing abilities of their ROs than the periods upon which reported, or not.

 

[muttywhitedog]

May seem harsh but that's the system....

Actually, its not as harsh as it appears. Look at it this way....

I take it you have been at your current location for a while, ergo you should be pretty competent at your job and getting decent grades. Getting a report on posting means that you have a whole 17-18 months to find your feet at your new unit before someone actually puts pen to paper.

The alternative is you arrive at a new unit and spend 2-3 months in an induction process before slotting in amongst your peers, many of whom will have been there a good while and will already have formed their natural pecking order. Unless you are outstanding in every aspect, you would find it hard, bordering on impossible to leapfrog your peers.

I believe on-posting reports generally benefit the individual, as long as they are not throbbers.

 

[muttywhitedog]

If Smeddley were to get 2 appraisals during this reporting period.

Of course, Officers have a completely different system, whereby they could get 4 appraisals in their reporting period:

Say TBJ gets his annual on 30 Apr, then on 14 Aug his 1RO gets posted, so he gets another one. On 30 Nov, TBJ is posted so he gets another one on posting, followed by his regular annual the following April.

Compare that to TBJ who gets one on 30 Apr, does his job for 12 months, along with his 1RO, and gets another the following April.

 

[Zeebad]

If Smeddley were to get 2 appraisals during this reporting period, that would give him an unfair advantage over all the other candidates in the field. I'm sure it would then be Service complaint time as far as they are concerned too.

How about the guy who is posted 5 months into the reporting period? He will get no recognition for the last 5 months in the job in which he was experienced but his first 7 months learning the new job will be reported upon. Would that also be a reason for a Service complaint?

Although we talk about a 'reporting year', one of the fundamental principles of the appraisal system is that 6 months' knowledge of the subject is enough for an RO to be able to write fairly and accurately. There are holes in the system, I agree, but I would say an individual is more likely to be disadvantaged by the report writing abilities of their ROs than the periods upon which reported, or not.

You have missed the point, this is stated in the fact that an extra SJAR would be unfair to everyone else... better being unfair to an individual? Anyway, as i should have been more specific: an insert slip NOT another SJAR, an input from the new 1st RO, especially if it is 4 months or over (happens with an OOA and if your boss changes, why not if subject moves to cx of boss). This input should be highly regarded because it gives the candidate a chance to break the mold and have a very strong potential (if he has the minerals), a chance that is not usually there when you are stuck in the queue with the rest of your peers. Also, there is the "mandatory" MPAR, where does that fit in? As far as RO's abilities, the Service is on thin ice, due to the varying abilities which are not controlled by a set standard, ie:- an authorisation granted after formal training. Why should somebody be disadvantaged because their RO is illiterate.

 

[Smeddley]

Woah,

Good to see if nothing else I've started a discussion.

As Zeebad stated, I was enquiring about an insert slip to be added to my SJAR to take account of the remaining 5 months for which I would not be reported on otherwise.

I know it would be unfair to have 2 SJARS in one reporting period, but surely it is not unfair to have an insert slip. As Zeebad commented, am I not being disadvantaged by NOT having this?

I'm thinking that just because this hasn't (so far as I know) been challenged, doesn't make the system fair. I now know of at least 3 other people in similar positions to myself who don't have enough service left to wait 18 mths for a 'fuller' SJAR. The more I think on it, the more a service complaint since the way to go. (It's not like I'd have anything to lose).

Thoughts on this?

 

[tommo9999]

Why should somebody be disadvantaged because their RO is illiterate.

They shouldn't be - as you say if the individual has the "minerals" he should be able to have a frank, open and constructive discussion with the RO about the content of the report. Needless to say, reporting is not just about the MPAR and SJAR - it should be an ongoing process where the individual engages with their RO and vice versa in order that a full and detailed picture is formed by the RO, allowing a quality report to be created.

 

[tommo9999]

The more I think on it, the more a service complaint since the way to go. (It's not like I'd have anything to lose).

Thoughts on this?

You would need to show that you had been disadvantaged - that would be difficult as every person in that position is treated in the same manner.

 

[Smeddley]

You would need to show that you had been disadvantaged - that would be difficult as every person in that position is treated in the same manner.

I understand that every person in that position is treated in the same manner but that doesn't make it fair. i.e everybody treated as such is disadvantaged by not having had remarks (via way of insert) to reflect the full 12 mths between appraisals. (Unless of course they've been below par in their new post).

It seems that a few people agree with my sentiments and even though it will be too late for some (including myself probably) the system won't change unless it's challenged.

 

[True Blue Jack]

...the system won't change unless it's challenged.

It can't hurt to try. Personally, I always took advantage of the period after an on-posting appraisal to settle into a new job without feeling under pressure to grab the first secondary duty that became available. You clearly have different priorities that you feel strongly about. So challenge it, and good luck.

 

[Zeebad]

They shouldn't be - as you say if the individual has the "minerals" he should be able to have a frank, open and constructive discussion with the RO about the content of the report. Needless to say, reporting is not just about the MPAR and SJAR - it should be an ongoing process where the individual engages with their RO and vice versa in order that a full and detailed picture is formed by the RO, allowing a quality report to be created.

What you talking about willis...? It is all about the report! THAT is what gets you promoted. Your use of the word "should" qualifies one of my points. (minimum standard to be achieved from formal training and recorded on JPA would clear that up). Please do not assume all RO's are capable. As an example, when you can not comment on a 2nd RO input when he is a 24 year old 8 months out of training and he is writing a SNCO's 6th SJAR, is that fair. Not only that, he is not duty bound to interview the subject. This has happened, I know. (All of this has happened to me in my last 2 SJAR's, I have 5 months and 1 week not reported on for my last SJAR to be read by a PSB, not only that, said 2RO dropped my grading and finalised my report without interview. The report was written so badly that I have submitted a service complaint. The previous report has the OOA insert missing).

Smedders, smash that service complaint in. Like you said, what you got to lose.