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General Slim

Minor - Under16
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After all the blah/hot air etc spoken on these threads about the usual issues, one very important issue has not been raised. The standards of the JNCOs, some have very little life experience, some in my view are merely well paid SACs, others clearly cannot understand what position they are meant to be holding.
Your views please.
 
I have to agree...

I have to agree...

I believe the rank of corporal has changed considerably, they no longer seem to be the ‘all knowing god’ on the shop floor they used to be. If you had a trade related question you could ask and be assured of the response being correct, now some appear unsure of there own ability and have to obtain reassurance from a colleague before feeling confident to answer. Also, discipline seems to be a thing of the past with modern JNCO’s becoming more like a higher paid SAC than an administer of regulation with a fear maybe of segregation from the rest if they are too forceful. This seems wrong, after all this is part of their role and not just on the shop floor. If you remember a time when whatever the corporal said was the law, you never saw the Sergeant; you will know what I am saying does hold water.
There does seem to be not much of a role, as stated, for JNCO’s, they should be offered more responsibility. Now I know I will be berated by some for this as they already have very heavy workloads, however, there must be some out there who… if honest… do not earn their pay… you know who you are! There does seem to be a gulf between the old style JNCO and the new model that seem to be getting less and less experienced and certainly younger. I can understand that if you genuinely are a very good tradesman then you deserve to be rewarded for that however, how many time have you be informed of someone’s promotion and thought or even said “how did he/she get promoted”? The caliber has certainly changed with incidents of SAC’s being promoted within four years, now what experience has that person gained in such a short career…

Anyway, just a though…
 
I'm assuming this relates to Ops JNCOs and not those in the techie world (I am, of course, biased). Maybe I am lucky but the majority of all JNCOs that I have worked with have been superb and have certainly been in no doubt as to where they fit in the organisation and the role they are expected to carry out. That said, however, there is a new bread of JNCO coming onto the scene – the recently promoted Cpl who having played the SAC(T) Q-Ops game has managed to be promoted without the practical experience that a JT would normally gain. And before I get blasted for this by all the SAC(T)s who might be reading this I simply do not believe the SAC(T) system adequately prepares an airman for the demands that he or she will face as a Cpl. That’s just my opinion and welcome comments from anyone who’d like to prove me wrong. Away from the Techie world, I have also known a number of admin and Ops Cpls who were also very good at their jobs and in some circumstances out-shone their immediate superiors.
 
Slim,

Before posting a reply I would be grateful if you would let me know your current rank. Thank you.

Standards!
 
The biggest mistake the trade made was the massive increase in Cpls in 1991/2. There were numerous SACs promoted on "36 points and a rec". The problem now hasnt gone away, the low assessment promotion is still here. I did two and a half tours before I was promoted, I was in a tower for 2 years then I served my time at an area radar unit and a little time then in Stn Ops. The Cpls were respected, they were listened to and you took everything they said on board. If you had a trade related question,they knew the answer. If you had a problem, they could fix it. They had the respect of all around them, now it hardly exists.

The guys in TG9 really do need to do time on the shop floor, they need to expierience the different roles. The more postings they get the more of the RAF they will see, it will give them a bigger picture, expieriences to draw on. With more postings you will get a greater trade knowledge. With a greater trade knowledge comes confidence, and with that confidence you will get someone who takes an interest, someone who will help along the SACs, and prehaps someone the SACs will start to respect.

Get rid of the "minimun turbulence" bollox for the SACs, get them out and about, get them seeing the roles.
 
I was promoted to cpl after about 4 and half years at the age of 23. My trade is reasonably small with slightly more LAC/SAC post than Cpls.

I would like to think I was promoted because I deserved it, but when you have to go on JMLC alongside 10/12 year JTs or SACs it becomes quite difficult, and I got a bit of stick, but I got on with pretty much everyone. I took the banter and gave banter back.
I didn't go on JMLC shouting at how long I had done or hadn't done and in the end I got on particularly well with a couple of techies that had been on leave longer than I had been in (seriously we did the maths). The thing was I hadn't done the least time on my JMLC, we had a phsychiatric nurse that had been in about a year and at the end of the course he asked when he could come back for his IMLC.

I am glad to say that my trade is now addressing the problem of quick SAC/CPL promotion but there are still those out there that think they should be picked up after 3 and half years.

I think Cpl is probably the best rank in the RAF you have responsibility but none of the p*sh that SNCOs and OrfFicers have to put up with, and you get a decent wedge. But after 4 years as a Cpl, and still the lowest rank in my section in my last post and current post I would still like the chance to have some kind of man-management/leadership responsibility as when I come up for promotion again I am pretty sure its going to be a pretty big step and a bit of a culture shock.

At the end of the day though I think you get good JNCOs, bad JNCOs and those that are promoted before their time whatever trade your in and it will probably always be like that.
 
Last edited:
Inch High PI said:
we had a psychiatric nurse that had been in about a year and at the end of the course he asked when he could come back for his IMLC.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with that?

I'm sure that if you'd spent several years training in the 'real world' before joining up (with the prospect of time promotion) you would expect it too.

I have no problem with nurses of any type getting promoted after a year.

JMLC/IMLC are courses designed to teach leadership skills. When I'm in next injured in theatre, I'm not likely to ask for someone to look at an aerial photo of some tank tracks - I would require a qualified nurse/doctor/surgeon. In the real world, the medical trades have their own rank structure that wouldn't work in the armed forces so time promotion is justified. To all you so called 'medics' in the RAF's med centres - you are nothing more than glorified receptionists.

Phone the duty 'medic' and get this reply 'I can't even issue brufen - call the NHS hot-line'. They may as well just put a voice mail message on the duty mobile phone (good for dodging guard duty I suppose). The 'medics' who swan about in their paramedic overalls, by the time you get to an aircraft crash, the only thing you have better than the techies (who will be the first at the scene) is a defibrillator machine (we're all trained in first aid after all).

Bollox, forgotton what this thread was about - apologies from going off on a tangent.:PDT_Xtremez_38:
 
Jag Fag

Were you once blown out by a medic? It is just that you seemed to be getting quite animated!

Standards!
 
Jag Fag said:
What's wrong with that?

I'm sure that if you'd spent several years training in the 'real world' before joining up (with the prospect of time promotion) you would expect it too.

I have no problem with nurses of any type getting promoted after a year.

JMLC/IMLC are courses designed to teach leadership skills. When I'm in next injured in theatre, I'm not likely to ask for someone to look at an aerial photo of some tank tracks - I would require a qualified nurse/doctor/surgeon. In the real world, the medical trades have their own rank structure that wouldn't work in the armed forces so time promotion is justified.
Click to expand...

As a random aside, its a similar set up for some commissioned trades - Dentists, Docs, Lawyers and Padres all get accelerated promotion in recognition of their civilian qualifications although I think Padres work on a completely different pay scale.
 
Standards said:
Jag Fag

Were you once blown out by a medic? It is just that you seemed to be getting quite animated!

Standards!
Click to expand...

or were you blown by a medic:PDT_Xtremez_19:
 
Jag Fag said:
What's wrong with that?

I'm sure that if you'd spent several years training in the 'real world' before joining up (with the prospect of time promotion) you would expect it too.

I have no problem with nurses of any type getting promoted after a year.

JMLC/IMLC are courses designed to teach leadership skills. When I'm in next injured in theatre, I'm not likely to ask for someone to look at an aerial photo of some tank tracks - I would require a qualified nurse/doctor/surgeon. In the real world, the medical trades have their own rank structure that wouldn't work in the armed forces so time promotion is justified. To all you so called 'medics' in the RAF's med centres - you are nothing more than glorified receptionists.

Phone the duty 'medic' and get this reply 'I can't even issue brufen - call the NHS hot-line'. They may as well just put a voice mail message on the duty mobile phone (good for dodging guard duty I suppose). The 'medics' who swan about in their paramedic overalls, by the time you get to an aircraft crash, the only thing you have better than the techies (who will be the first at the scene) is a defibrillator machine (we're all trained in first aid after all).

Bollox, forgotton what this thread was about - apologies from going off on a tangent.:PDT_Xtremez_38:
Click to expand...


I never said there was any problem with the nurse bloke. He was actually one of the more switched on individuals.
 
We waiting(I think) for a Cpl to come on TMT who had 1 unlikely, and 2 likeys. Talk about promoting dross.

It also stems from stations being given their own budgets. Certainly on Sqns they wanted experience when they lost the current bod. When they were offered a 3yr SAC they said NO thanks and up'd the post to a Cpl. The problem with that was suddenly PMA had to find the Cpl, they increased the prom board and hey presto got the SAC thet they had refused about 6 mths earlier as a Cpl!!!!

There does need to be a complete rethink on the rank within the trade (and many others) on what to do with the Cpl rank and how to increase their knowledge and skills

:PDT_Xtremez_30:
 
I think we must be in an awful state if our SNCOs don't know when to use an apostrophe.

(sorry Stax, I've been resisting it all day and just had to give in!)
 
FOMZ.

Yes you are being to simplistic.
Point for infoman, if the TMT1 students fail to make the grade, then why not bin them from the course - radical but it could set a example to others.
Certainly the NCOs at my prievious unit were definitely of the highest calibre, mainly because they were mature, older(no disrespect intended) and had varied career tours thus produceding a well rounded individual. The fault does lie really with the ROs, if the subject is crap then say so, do not be afraid of marking a person down. What happens is that you eventually end up working with these useless tossers who : a. cause you supervisory problems. b. cause general staffing problems. c. generally upset their subordinates. In short they cause so much grief, it would be nice to go back to what FOMZ remebers as a reasonabley fail safe system but given the expectations that young people demand today its hardly realistic is it ?, or am I just a cynical, bitter, over the hill, out of touch,irrelevant old ****. Incidentally there is no requirement to answer the latter half of that statement.
Must dash as Taff (Cpl from PPC) is putting the kettle on.
 
Standards said:
Jag Fag

Were you once blown out by a medic? It is just that you seemed to be getting quite animated!

Standards!
Click to expand...

I've only asked two WAAFs out - I was blown out by the 'Chef' and have been married to the other for 9 years.

I do get rather animated though. I can never get an appointment at the RMC and during a recent guard duty, had to call the duty (exempt from guard) medic to be told - call the NHS hotline.

:PDT_Xtremez_25:

Sorry, I'm getting a bit animated agaim.
 
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