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The Truth Has Finally Prevailed

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Watching the hillsborough documentary. All I can say that Duckenfield is a lying coward. I hope he is prosecuted. How as he lived all these year with the lies he's told. No sympathy for the man. Horrible man
 
It should never have come to this and It should never have taken so long.

I've always wondered who gave the job of chief constable of Merseyside to Norman Bettison. They got some questions to answer.

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I wonder if now that the scapegoat has been found not guilty by a jury, that the search for a new one will commence, and if so who it will be.
 
I just find it very weird. The official inquest verdict was that 96 people were unlawfully killed. Now to my simple mind that infers that someone did something unlawful. Yet it seems that despite millions being spent and pages and pages of evidence being presented that no one is deemed to be responsible for undertaking anything unlawful that resulted in the deaths of 96 people. Odd
 
IMHO, no single person was solely to blame. There was a catalogue of errors across multiple areas which, added together, created a tragedy.
 
I've always though that there was a degree of spite involved in the prosecution. We know what happened so tragically because the gates were opened, however we can never know what might have happened had the gates not been opened and the crush outside had been allowed to press against the locked gates; could a similar tragedy have occurred there? Whilst his decision may have been the final straw in the catalogue of errors leading up to the disaster that did occur there is no certainty that, had he decided the other way he wouldn't have been pursued for a disaster caused by failing to open the gates.

There were lots of errors leading up to the event and some of what occurred afterwards (doctored police statements etc) was unforgiveable but we only know that because of that wonderful clarity of vision that comes with hindsight and years of forensic investigation.
 
After 30 years and with lots of false facts on the official record, justice was always going to be hard to find when the burden of proof is so high for a criminal finding.

I empathise with those who lost but I can’t see any chance of a prosecution leading to a guilty verdict, they will never forget, they will never forgive.
 
It a strange one really. The people who really are to blame are the advisers of match crowd control. Putting a novice in charge was bound to cause loss of life in any other big match. The buck stopped with the match commander because he was the only one the police on the ground stopping the crowds communicated. Unfortunately sheep are sheep and will go where you direct them. News media of the time hated footballers and treated many teams as scum. Sun was first to jump with the headline and paid the price in Liverpool. if I remember rightly then followed by the other main titles too. There was a few deaths before this Hysel Bradford etc then before this Riots Coal Miners Strikes and the price being the targets as SPG. Not forgetting Irish terrorism was still high blowing building and MPs. So the heighten reactions became heavy handed as norm with football fans in general.
 
Oldstacker said:
I've always though that there was a degree of spite involved in the prosecution. We know what happened so tragically because the gates were opened, however we can never know what might have happened had the gates not been opened and the crush outside had been allowed to press against the locked gates; could a similar tragedy have occurred there? Whilst his decision may have been the final straw in the catalogue of errors leading up to the disaster that did occur there is no certainty that, had he decided the other way he wouldn't have been pursued for a disaster caused by failing to open the gates.

There were lots of errors leading up to the event and some of what occurred afterwards (doctored police statements etc) was unforgiveable but we only know that because of that wonderful clarity of vision that comes with hindsight and years of forensic investigation.
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Is it spiteful to want justice. Is it spiteful that David Duckenfield admitted lying in his statement to police. South Yorkshire police have form for falsifying forging statement s, for covering up investigations ask the victims of the Sheffield and Rotherham sex abuse scandals, ask the miners of orgreave.

So every time a coverup by the establishment is discovered then we shouldn't hold anybody to account as it's too spiteful.

Duckenfield was able to live his life for the last 30 years while 96 people went to a football match and never came home.

How is it spiteful fighting for justice for these poor souls.
 
Searching for fair justice is not spiteful. His lying in his post match statements was wrong and he should have been charged over that (if such an offence exists legally) however telling lies is not manslaughter, being woefully under-trained and under-experienced for the role he was given is not manslaughter, other people's failings in the design of the stadium and deciding to hold the match there is not manslaughter by him.
I am not sure what justice for the bereaved could even look like, there were so many wrongs done to them, especially after the event. But I just don't think that dumping it all on him, especially after 30 years of hindsight, investigation and consideration is justice for anyone. He didn't have the benefit of the hindsight and understanding of crowd dynamics and safety that we now have when he made his under-pressure decision. One injustice is not redressed by another.
 
Oldstacker said:
Searching for fair justice is not spiteful. His lying in his post match statements was wrong and he should have been charged over that (if such an offence exists legally) however telling lies is not manslaughter, being woefully under-trained and under-experienced for the role he was given is not manslaughter, other people's failings in the design of the stadium and deciding to hold the match there is not manslaughter by him.
I am not sure what justice for the bereaved could even look likeh, there were so many wrongs done to them, especially after the event. But I just don't think that dumping it all on him, especially after 30 years of hindsight, investigation and consideration is justice for anyone. He didn't have the benefit of the hindsight and understanding of crowd dynamics and safety that we now have when he made his under-pressure decision. One injustice is not redressed by another.
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How is charging him for manslaughter an injustice. The police the ippc and the CPS must have decided that there was enough evidence to charge him, are you telling me that they are guilty of an injustice against him. This from CPS

Sue Hemming, the Crown Prosecution Service head of special crime and counter-terrorism, said the CPS would allege that Duckenfield’s failure to take personal responsibility on the day was “extraordinarily bad and contributed substantially to the deaths of each of those 96 people who so tragically and unnecessarily lost their lives”

Obviously you are more if an expert than this lady.

That takes the biscuit. He wouldn't even go to court on his retrisl citing PTSD. At least he's lived his life. Excuse me if I have no sympathy for the man, he's beyond contempt.
 
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justintime129 said:
How is charging him for manslaughter an injustice. The police the ippc and the CPS must have decided that there was enough evidence to charge him, are you telling me that they are guilty of an injustice against him. This from CPS

Sue Hemming, the Crown Prosecution Service head of special crime and counter-terrorism, said the CPS would allege that Duckenfield’s failure to take personal responsibility on the day was “extraordinarily bad and contributed substantially to the deaths of each of those 96 people who so tragically and unnecessarily lost their lives”

Obviously you are more if an expert than this lady.

That takes the biscuit. He wouldn't even go to court on his retrisl citing PTSD. At least he's lived his life. Excuse me if I have no sympathy for the man, he's beyond contempt.
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There's a lot of truth in what you say - and I find myself in total agreement with you on the fact that 96 football fans went to a normal footie match and never came home. Because at the end of the day someone was in charge and someone should be held accountable in the eyes of the law.

My only question is this though - you say that Duckenfield has been able to live his life for the last 30 years - I wonder deep down what kind of life he has actually been able to lead? Behind closed doors, I wonder if he has grieved too; whether he has been wracked with guilt for every day of those 30 years?

I know that whatever he is feeling won't come anywhere close to the fact that after 30 years the families of the 96 still do not have anyone held accountable for the tragedy, but it is worth a thought.
 
Kryten said:
There's a lot of truth in what you say - and I find myself in total agreement with you on the fact that 96 football fans went to a normal footie match and never came home. Because at the end of the day someone was in charge and someone should be held accountable in the eyes of the law.

My only question is this though - you say that Duckenfield has been able to live his life for the last 30 years - I wonder deep down what kind of life he has actually been able to lead? Behind closed doors, I wonder if he has grieved too; whether he has been wracked with guilt for every day of those 30 years?

I know that whatever he is feeling won't come anywhere close to the fact that after 30 years the families of the 96 still do not have anyone held accountable for the tragedy, but it is worth a thought.
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But he's hd a life. If he had have had a conscience he would have come years ago and admitted he'd lied.
 
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