What does the future hold?

[MyShineyAr$e]

I am currently doing a GD job at the unit formerly known as RAF Cosford. I cannot see the need for me to be employed in this post.

Whilst I have no gripes with the unit (it is great location at the moment for me), it is a job that I feel is waste of my experience/knowledge and one which could quite easily be done by other trades, but, as with most gash jobs it has been deemed that Pers Admin should shoulder the responsibility.

I am however safe in the knowledge that it is only temporary as I will no doubt be posted back into a main stream Pers Admin job on completion of this tour. Or will I? I thought I was safe in the knowledge, but now I am not so sure. As is well known all PSF's are suffering 20% manning cuts. Now altough these cuts aren't related to the redundancies it begs the question where will all the clerks go?

Obviously if someone is cut from one PSF chances are that due to the same cuts at other units there will be no room in any other PSF's so what happens. In my opinion it is leading towards a splinter cell of clerks which will in essence become TG10 RAF Adminers. Where else will we be employed. Some squadrons started taking on extra clerks initially but it still leaves plenty of clerks in limbo.

So as I see it the only way we will be employed is as gash hands around units. Working GD flights for the majority of the rest of our careers.

What is other Shineys views on our future?

 

[Statty Queen]

Rumour has it, that us clks will soon be working in SMCs as Med Admin, and a lot of PSF posts will become DAG posts.

There's no need for as many Clks now that the glorious JPA is here and people can action their own leave passes/claims. Sqn clks are gonna be taking on the PSF role, to deal with their own bods.

 

[shiny_arse]

I read something somewhere that the redundancy board for TG17 Cpls sat at the back end of July. Has anything been promulgated about the results yet. Can't wait to find out if I'm going to be promoted to either Sgt or Mr.

As for jobs, the rumour mill is cranking up all over the place again and I've heard the one about Med Admin as well. That one definitely is not one started by the medics as they are not best please to hear about it. It will be the same fiasco all over again the same as MT drivers and Chefs. Give a couple of years and apart from some new software it will be business as usual for the shiny world.

 

[Boarderlyne]

The future aint bright...

The future aint bright...

As I said in a previous post our numbers are going to be in freefall over the next few years. The Med Admin is not going to be an option as I know that the medics are fighting tooth and nail to keep their own numbers up.

I hate to say it but I can see us doing a very narrow band of jobs. Admin support on Wgs and Sqns, PA's, PSF's...sorry, I mean HR Admin, drafters,establishments and the odd P1 job. Most of the other jobs will either go as units get shut down or be civilianised so that the few of us that are left have to fight to get rid of the OOA dodgers to stop us always being on det!

The biggest problem is that although they all go on about keeping promotion fluid, you know it's all going to go Pete Tong and it will be back down to about 10 getting promoted on a yearly basis and the rest of us will time-ex! DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[Rebel without A Clue]

I remember the Trade Sponsor mentioning at his last visit that there will be a Tactical Admin Wing set-up, along the same lines as TMW, TSW, etc, providing the TG17 OOA's, supporting the deployed sqns and the like, and this was probably the main direction for TG17. But then again, that's one of the tasks of the DAGs surely?!?!? Also, this "TAW" idea was bounded about when I was an LAC many, many moons ago...but then there's been so many (unfounded) rumours about the future of the trade. What we do need to be doing is stop soaking up the debris from the demise of other trades (GD, stattys (sorry guys!), etc)as this means we will end up in $h1tty posts doing the $h1tty jobs no-one else wants, thus lowering the morale of a trade who's morale could really do without lowering.

 

[MyShineyAr$e]

The real reason for starting the thread........

The real reason for starting the thread........

After reading the replies thus far it seems that the people see the trade heading in the same direction.

Well how about this for food for thought.

I was part of the JPA Project Team at Stafford and due to the unit closing I ended up being the Proj O as a Cpl (because my OC was to busy apparently). Anyhew with this task came the opportunity to attend some meetings/briefings with the implementation teams/the head honcho of the JPA Focal POint etc.

At the final meeting before JPA launched the Trade Sponsor was there, to field questions about what JPA meant to the future of the trade. Now he came out with the usual crap about we still have a future and JPA won't change the trade drastically. However someone, I can't remember who, had planted a seed into my head and I felt now was the time to pose a question to the Trade Sponsor. It wen't a little like this.

Me, "Sir, when JPA is rolled out to all three services, will we all be recieving the same training"

Him, "Thats very likely"

Me, "So we could in essence become a Joint Service Admin trade?"

Him, "Thats not very likely"

Me, "Ok so how about this. What are the chances that in 2 years time when the forces are overstretched on Ops, that RAF Clks are deployed to serve on ships admin post as we are all trained in JPA?

Him, "Well you already serve on ships in support of harriers etc...?"

Me, "No Sir, you don't get my point. What are the chances that in 2 years time RAF Clks are filling Army and Navy specific posts to backfill for them when they are deploying and can't meet the commitment and I don't mean in support of RAF pers or assests"

Him, "Erm....Erm......", Quick glance for help from his WO, "Erm....Erm, it won't happen...."

 

[Shiny_Happy]

The problem is that admin is always seen as an easy option when it comes to cuts. After all, we just sit on our arrses all day doing nothing don't we?

It's easy for the powers to be to say that sqn clks can do PSF roles, and get rid of loads of posts from PSF. The problem is, of course, that the sqn clks are busy enough doing their own jobs anyway.

With the exception of some posts, that we all wish we could get, Pers Admins are, in my opinion generally busier than a lot of trades. Tea breaks twice a day - no. Early stacks on a Friday - not very often. And probably one of the few trades where even at SAC level the guys have their own workloads and responsibilities to manage and deal with. SACs in PSF go home knowing what is in their in tray, and what ongoing issues they need to sort out for people. Don't see, for instance SAC movers doing this (not a dig at movers).

And remember the outrage on stations when PSFs closed the ration count one afternoon a month. Essentially, people want us to be there for them all the time, with little or no thanks, and most of us want to help them the very best that we can.

It really annoys me that we are treated with such casual disregarded by the powers that be, and I think that this is because so few people know about the full extent of or duties and what we do. People see a civvy PA to OC Mops and Buckets doing very little, and assume that our whole trade is like that. Where are the Wg Cdr and above adminners standing up and defending us?

I can see coming, in the near future, a point where there are not enough clerks to do the job. Standards of service go way down as those of us left cannot cope and we leave because our morale is so low. Standards fall even further because of this. Manning crisis ensues, cue floods of people through SecTS, loads and loads of inexperienced clerks being led by junior Cpls and Sgts promoted due to husg shortfalls at every rank. Service standards never return to what they are at the moment, and everyone hankers for the 'good old days', knowing that those days are never going to return. But not to worry, so long as we save money in the short-term 1-2 year budget, who cares if it costs 10 times as much down the line? They guys in charge now will have gone by then, someone elses name will be associated with the fiasco.

Rant Over
Shiny_UNHappy

 

[skevans]

In response to Shiny Happy

I work on a small unit, there are about 80 staff, half being RAF.

MY clerk is a clerk, I know because he tells me!

MY clerk the only SAC we have, followed by a SGT(Chief Clerk) then a Flt Lt ( God only knows what he does!)

MY clerk works extremelly hard, even coming in on his time off to 'stay on top of things'. On a unit like ours this happens a hell of a lot.

MY clerk is probably the most efficient 'HR' machine you could ever ask for.

Why is he MY clerk???

Because thats how he makes me feel. He solves my problems, and whenever he is dealing with me, I truly feel that I am the only one he has to work for.

I can't solve the troubles in your trade anymore than you can mine, but at least you must at least feel wanted. Keep it up Shineys

 

[Twonston Pickle]

I cetainly feel that a lot of our roles go unnoticed by the majority; PSF is not the only job for clerks. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that there are very few senior adminers who are seen by the masses and our branch & trade sponsors have been particularly quiet over the most important time in our transition. I do not fancy my chances of seeing out my original terms in the admin world and I am seriously looking at alternatives, both in an out of service.

 

[shiny_arse]

I cetainly feel that a lot of our roles go unnoticed by the majority; PSF is not the only job for clerks. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that there are very few senior adminers who are seen by the masses and our branch & trade sponsors have been particularly quiet over the most important time in our transition. I do not fancy my chances of seeing out my original terms in the admin world and I am seriously looking at alternatives, both in an out of service.

Trouble is and harking back to past years, PSF was the be all and end all of TG17, you can still hear the bitching about being passed over for promotion because you had never served in a gen office, regardless of the fact that only ever 30% of the trade was ever employed there at any stage. Whats interesting now is the fact that only once PSF was JPA'd are the masses actually getting the picture of what actually goes on within our shiny world.

Over the years I've dabbled in supplies, transport, project management, instructing, VIP to name but a few. Because of the fact that someone is not physically looking after personnel wages and movements on a station level, the more important fact of how we are employed outside of gen office is conveniently overlooked and our entire trade and the RAF as a whole gets ripped apart for no significant reason.

 

[Boarderlyne]

JPA - Now they see the light?

JPA - Now they see the light?

Adding to this, it is intriguing to see that quite a few bods have been plucked from various places and chucked into JPAC to help them out. Even had one Squabbly Bleeder saying and I quote "What are we going to do without clerks looking after us?". Couldn't have said it better. While many of us have been viewed as bumbling sloths and a waste of a uniform over the years, the majority of the Air Force is now realising how bloody hard we worked to look after them.

Hopefully, JPA will serve as a wake-up call to our lords and masters that TG17 haven't just been twiddling their collective thumbs for the past few years and they might just fight a bit harder to save what's left of the trade before we become as extinct as RAF Admin! DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[TrebleB]

As a sqn clerk that has had devolved responsibility from PSF since 1997 our role has, happily, not expanded too much.

I would be more worried if I was Pers Admin ADP!!!

 

[Rebel without A Clue]

As a sqn clerk that has had devolved responsibility from PSF since 1997 our role has, happily, not expanded too much.

I would be more worried if I was Pers Admin ADP!!!

Speak for yourself mate! I'm a JNCO I/C Sqn Admin and my work load has tripled since JPA has come in as our PSF have turned all "seagull" on the sqns at our place, and I wager I'm not the only one who has seen a significant upturn in their workload. If I were you, I'd keep hold of your job as long as possible. If your role hasn't expanded too much, then you are certainly one of the lucky ones.

 

[Notsoblunt]

As a knackered old sweat of a Pers Admin (I can still remember when that applied to SNCOs only) of nearly 27 years service, I don't mind admitting to anyone who will listen that IMHO the introduction of JPA was the death-knell for our trade.

I for one submitted my redundancy papers at the earliest possible opportunity, and now sit here with fingers crossed awaiting the outcome!

 

[Rebel without A Clue]

At least everyone in the trade should be safe in the knowledge that McDonalds uses Oracle too, so we're sorted...

 

[Major Geek]

ORACLE itself is not the problem. If "it" was that bad then it wouldnt be such a large company. The real problem is the fact that an existing (working) application has been modified and all our procedures changed in order to fit a square plug in a round hole.

That is what has caused so much grief to you shineys and the rest of the Air Force.

 

[tonibaloni]

guys where I grant you all my sympathy, and know how you feel, it is all trades in the mob at the mo who are being squeezed to save maney, except very very senior officer posts and aircrew of course. Why do we need so many senior officers, and why are so many trained aircrew in desk jobs? if they are not flying, or likely to, get rid.

 

[RIGHTHANDSPANKER]

Speak for yourself mate! I'm a JNCO I/C Sqn Admin and my work load has tripled since JPA has come in as our PSF have turned all "seagull" on the sqns at our place, and I wager I'm not the only one who has seen a significant upturn in their workload. If I were you, I'd keep hold of your job as long as possible. If your role hasn't expanded too much, then you are certainly one of the lucky ones.

I am with you on that one. I am also JNCO I/C registry and have seen our workload increase!!! The annoying thing is PSF is informing the lads that the Sqn registry is dealing with everything. The Only problem is PSF are not informing the Sqn registry what is going on.

 

[shiny_arse]

I am with you on that one. I am also JNCO I/C registry and have seen our workload increase!!! The annoying thing is PSF is informing the lads that the Sqn registry is dealing with everything. The Only problem is PSF are not informing the Sqn registry what is going on.

Snap, but to be fair PSF in probably in a quandry trying to deicpher exactly what is required from the myriad of Operational Bulletins, letters from Trade Sponsors, et al.

What grips my goat is the fact that all the supposed information that is out there is either of no use or now out of date. As soon as I've caught up with what is happening I disappear off on exercise, come back and it's all changed yet again.

Additionally, all us shinys probably took part in that joke of a conversion course down at Portsmouth and left with more questions than answers. My main concern is that with all the devolved Admin that we in the registrys and sqns get lumped with, where is the training to aid us?. Hell, I have not worked in a Gen Office since 1997 and during that time we have had all the various rules and regs reworked to death. I'm now expected after 9 years to be a trade specialist in all and everything to do with TG17, but whereas it was a simple case of delving into the AP's, now we have to look at a various amount of literature to try and supply an answer.

Also read with interest the Op Bulletin reference I-Support requests and my question is now - What the hell does the JPAC actually do?. I copy the text below for those who have not yet seen:

Subject of query/request Contact point

Arrivals process Unit HR / arrivals clerk
Competencies Unit HR
Food charges (incl MUSA) Unit HR
GYH Unit HR
HDT (aka HTD) Unit HR
LOA Unit HR
LSA Unit HR
LSSA Unit HR
Rank Unit HR
SLA Unit HR
SFA DE unless Overseas with no DE
representation then Unit HR
SUPA / substitution pay Unit HR
SRIP Unit HR

 

[Boarderlyne]

It's A Nightmare!

It's A Nightmare!

I saw that Ops Bulletin as well, but you missed the really meaty part of that bulletin.

"All Service Support Requests pertaining to these items will be closed immediately. If personnel feel that their problem is not resolved then they are to resubmit their query"

So not only are we being told what we are doing by JPA Ops who are not getting the Gen out but they are switching off any JPA problems that might be too hard. Easy way of clearing your back log of over 6000 pay queries! Gits. As if I have enough time to read all the Ops bulletins when I have submitted 6 Support Requests in the last day! And that is on top of all my normal work. And trying to find ways of making JPA play as nice as SAMA did when I had to sort out Management Prints.

I am just so glad that I have my posting and I am not going to be expected to be an expert on JSP 752 instead it's JSP 440, 441 and DII! DT_Xtremez_30: Never thought I ever be so glad to be posted to run a Central Registry! DT_Xtremez_21: