techie_tubby
Warrant Officer
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ah so it is. oops *note to self, read which section it's in before making comments*
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A new Pay Spine?
- Thread starter spanners
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So we all agree that nurses deserve the new pay spine, but do we deserve one?
I obviously think we do, but I’m not too sure about the men in the ivory towers. It is very hard to compare what we do with our civvy counterpart. If you use BAe or NSG etc as a comparison, then we must think about where they recruit from and the fact that a lot of them assume you have a military pension and take advantage of this fact.
I obviously think we do, but I’m not too sure about the men in the ivory towers. It is very hard to compare what we do with our civvy counterpart. If you use BAe or NSG etc as a comparison, then we must think about where they recruit from and the fact that a lot of them assume you have a military pension and take advantage of this fact.
D
dodgysootie
Guest
Thats all very well and good Spanners, But would your "Civilian counterparts" be able to drag old car tyres for a set distance up a hill whilst wearing boots and a respirator(MK. 10)? I think NOT!!!
DS
DS
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I don't think i know any techies who can do that in the first place!
Well all i can say is well done for the nurses, deserving for them, but since it has been done for them, all it shows is that it can be done for us surely?? I know that some people would say "if the techies get their own pay spine surely so can we?" and to that i say why not? We all know that 2 pay scales as it is at the minute in no way reflects the skills, responsibilities and all that good jazz that each trade has to deal with.
Or is it just me?
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I certainly have. Useless ****s some of them.
Some Gems amongst them but they are few and far between.
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Lets put it this way.
This is just from a Herc Techie point of view.
We do 4-6 months a year away in either Al Udied or Kandahar. Although you get extra dosh in Kandahar I would rather not get it and use the money to employ more people so I don't go away that much.
Weve had to pick up human flesh and cleaned up blood from our aircraft cargo bays risking aids and other stuff in which we haven't been trained.
We do 12 hour day/night shifts covering 365 days a year (Yes, some of us work through Xmas and New year while you lot are on Grant). In civvy street you get paid "Unsociable Hours" which equates to a couple of grand extra per year.
We work with substances that can give us cancer and fook our lungs and make us blind. We don't get paid any extra for that.
We sign legal binding documentation which makes us responsible for peoples lives. If we fook up we go down for manslaughter. If other non techies fook up (excluding medical branch) its "It will be sorted at the end of the month"
However, I don't have any problem with other trades getting pay hikes but feel that since 2001 we, as a Squadron have been balls out. I can't speak for every other techie section out there but I know both us and the Chinny fleet are basically burnt out. ****, people don't even have leaving doos when they go now, they just slip out the back door never to be seen again. Morale is bad and people are just plain fecked off with a never ending dets every 3 or so months. Basically the lads come back, have a weeks POL, get stiffed for a month of guard, then its back to prepping for another 2 month det.
Oh yes, and us TG1 techies have all been dual traded meaning that we cover the shortfall in both trades and are now busier than ever....not that anyone gives a **** about us.
The light at the end of the tunnel is bleak, especially since we've been told that we are now taking over for the old Herc at MPA. You could imagine how that went down.
This is just from a Herc Techie point of view.
We do 4-6 months a year away in either Al Udied or Kandahar. Although you get extra dosh in Kandahar I would rather not get it and use the money to employ more people so I don't go away that much.
Weve had to pick up human flesh and cleaned up blood from our aircraft cargo bays risking aids and other stuff in which we haven't been trained.
We do 12 hour day/night shifts covering 365 days a year (Yes, some of us work through Xmas and New year while you lot are on Grant). In civvy street you get paid "Unsociable Hours" which equates to a couple of grand extra per year.
We work with substances that can give us cancer and fook our lungs and make us blind. We don't get paid any extra for that.
We sign legal binding documentation which makes us responsible for peoples lives. If we fook up we go down for manslaughter. If other non techies fook up (excluding medical branch) its "It will be sorted at the end of the month"
However, I don't have any problem with other trades getting pay hikes but feel that since 2001 we, as a Squadron have been balls out. I can't speak for every other techie section out there but I know both us and the Chinny fleet are basically burnt out. ****, people don't even have leaving doos when they go now, they just slip out the back door never to be seen again. Morale is bad and people are just plain fecked off with a never ending dets every 3 or so months. Basically the lads come back, have a weeks POL, get stiffed for a month of guard, then its back to prepping for another 2 month det.
Oh yes, and us TG1 techies have all been dual traded meaning that we cover the shortfall in both trades and are now busier than ever....not that anyone gives a **** about us.
The light at the end of the tunnel is bleak, especially since we've been told that we are now taking over for the old Herc at MPA. You could imagine how that went down.
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Couldn't agree more Wobbs. It really puts things in perspective when you have to mop up someones blood and vomit in the back of a cab. I'm glad I'll never have to come out here again if I'm honest.
Saying that, the Chinny fleet would have a lot more guys if there weren't so many downgraders, but we've been over that before haven't we?
Saying that, the Chinny fleet would have a lot more guys if there weren't so many downgraders, but we've been over that before haven't we?
Swingwinger
Sergeant
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Only one gaping hole. In a fat waaf Cpl.....................does that count?
docbombhead
Sergeant
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BillyBunter
Techie & Proud
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Well I think its a good idea tbh , Us Techies have been told there will never be any change to the pay structure and low and behold the Nurses get one. Im not saying they dont deserve one and good on them , but If you can for one it means you can for all.
Right now Techies are not important enough for the manning figures to worry about hence they can afford to loose many more , Ok we may come across up our own arses but we are not in the pinch trades bracket so the bigger leaders dont think the same as us. Its hard to accept and yes its wrong as we do so much more than just being a Techie, yes there is plenty of resentment out there that will grow and its just building up slowly. In a few years time I think there will be a peak and a big problem.
I have just recently changed to a new jet and the word from the big wigs is this jet will not break down, it will not need much in the way of mechanical work and I think the lords above assume this will be the same for all new aircraft. We did all giggle but if this is how they base things with trained engineers then we are in for huge problems. After all electronic aircraft can let you know via a PC that the hyds are loosing pressure, conditioning is too low pressure etc etc , somebody says how can it detect a bird strike on a wing . The room went blank , was funny heheheh
Right now Techies are not important enough for the manning figures to worry about hence they can afford to loose many more , Ok we may come across up our own arses but we are not in the pinch trades bracket so the bigger leaders dont think the same as us. Its hard to accept and yes its wrong as we do so much more than just being a Techie, yes there is plenty of resentment out there that will grow and its just building up slowly. In a few years time I think there will be a peak and a big problem.
I have just recently changed to a new jet and the word from the big wigs is this jet will not break down, it will not need much in the way of mechanical work and I think the lords above assume this will be the same for all new aircraft. We did all giggle but if this is how they base things with trained engineers then we are in for huge problems. After all electronic aircraft can let you know via a PC that the hyds are loosing pressure, conditioning is too low pressure etc etc , somebody says how can it detect a bird strike on a wing . The room went blank , was funny heheheh
I think the main problem is the shear number of aircraft techs across all the services, the MOD get a set pot each each to spend on FRIs. That pot would have to be considerably increased to the point where people would have to ask 'What can we cut to pay for this?'
The top brass could ask for more money but with other trades across the services in a even worse shape, it would be pretty hard to justify. The top brass probably aren't pushing as hard as they could, but they are politically smart enough to only fight the battles that they can win.
Don't get me wrong as sootie I'd love to get some more cash, but with things so tight at the moment it's unlikely to happen within 4/5 years.
The top brass could ask for more money but with other trades across the services in a even worse shape, it would be pretty hard to justify. The top brass probably aren't pushing as hard as they could, but they are politically smart enough to only fight the battles that they can win.
Don't get me wrong as sootie I'd love to get some more cash, but with things so tight at the moment it's unlikely to happen within 4/5 years.
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As a nurse I am obviously very happy about a new pay spine I do however feel that there is a side to this that has been overlooked.
Nursing for all its faults is classed as a profession and as such recruits from the outside trained professionals as well as training nurses.
Please correct me if I am wrong but all aircraft techies are trained by the RAF, even engineering officers have to do a course before you let them loose.
Recruitment for nursing has struggled at times especially in areas such as A&E, ITU and Theatres and there have been a number of 'golden handshake schemes' to get specialists in as well as retain them. Problem is 'agenda for change' has meant that grass was greener outside, more cash less hassle etc. So both recruitment and retention have suffered of trained nurses.
There have been a huge amount of threads devoted to this topic and is good to here that this rise has been accepted in good spirit. I am not going to gloat and I would like to think my colleagues wont either, especially as there are a few trades that i personally feel deserve better treatment, Paramedics being a prime example.
Rather than bitching at each other those who feel they deserve better should turn their angst at their trade management who appear to have allowed this to happen.
It is a pity that Wobbly's post will not be seen by our lords and masters as that is the sort of thing they need to hear. Whinging that Shiney's dont deserve to be on the higher pay band is not the way to do it, justifying the TG and highlighting the amount the work that you do and to what level of responsibility is the way forward.
Lets face it everyone equates nursing to saving lives.
As a techie you tell someone you fixed an engine, big thrills most garages do that everyday.
You tell someone you identified a fault in an engine and rectified it, because if the engine had failed the AC could have crashed/failed to operate/had to be diverted then people will sit up and take notice. As i have said its your trade management that need to be sorted out and having a go at other trades wont help (no matter how much fun it is
DT_Xtremez_42
Nursing for all its faults is classed as a profession and as such recruits from the outside trained professionals as well as training nurses.
Please correct me if I am wrong but all aircraft techies are trained by the RAF, even engineering officers have to do a course before you let them loose.
Recruitment for nursing has struggled at times especially in areas such as A&E, ITU and Theatres and there have been a number of 'golden handshake schemes' to get specialists in as well as retain them. Problem is 'agenda for change' has meant that grass was greener outside, more cash less hassle etc. So both recruitment and retention have suffered of trained nurses.
There have been a huge amount of threads devoted to this topic and is good to here that this rise has been accepted in good spirit. I am not going to gloat and I would like to think my colleagues wont either, especially as there are a few trades that i personally feel deserve better treatment, Paramedics being a prime example.
Rather than bitching at each other those who feel they deserve better should turn their angst at their trade management who appear to have allowed this to happen.
It is a pity that Wobbly's post will not be seen by our lords and masters as that is the sort of thing they need to hear. Whinging that Shiney's dont deserve to be on the higher pay band is not the way to do it, justifying the TG and highlighting the amount the work that you do and to what level of responsibility is the way forward.
Lets face it everyone equates nursing to saving lives.
As a techie you tell someone you fixed an engine, big thrills most garages do that everyday.
You tell someone you identified a fault in an engine and rectified it, because if the engine had failed the AC could have crashed/failed to operate/had to be diverted then people will sit up and take notice. As i have said its your trade management that need to be sorted out and having a go at other trades wont help (no matter how much fun it is
DT_Xtremez_42
S
shimmeringbottom
Guest
Correct and very good post.
\i just posted on another topic that it is upto their Trade Sponsor to get his/her sh!t together and do what he/she is paid for.
I will say it again, as TG17 I was absolutely gob smacked that we got to the higher pay band and in my opinion no way deserve it. That said, hats off to our TS and his (and others) championing of our trade.
Some TS should be knocking on his door for some advice and enthusiasm...
BillyBunter
Techie & Proud
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Ok Penfold I agree good post but one thing you said which I think you should take a look at is this comment
"Lets face it everyone equates nursing to saving lives.
As a techie you tell someone you fixed an engine, big thrills most garages do that everyday.
"
Can I just add in the engineering world it takes one thing to be missed on an expensive machine for that machine to fail , that resposability goes all the way to the mechanic who puts oils in it. You dont need me to tell you when a machine fails things will go wrong , i think if you look at current last few months so many aicraft accidents have by the looks of it been down to maintenance errors , i just hope and pray this is not a groing trend. It is a very responsible job that others on station do not see and I think education to everyone else would help.
Nurses save lives , well my experience is doctors save lives , nurses just do things to free up many of the tasks doctors do and in war situations Nurses do a great job. Again maybe I need an eduaction to what actually a Nurse does but dont think that engineering does not save lives , you would be very very surprised.
"Lets face it everyone equates nursing to saving lives.
As a techie you tell someone you fixed an engine, big thrills most garages do that everyday.
"
Can I just add in the engineering world it takes one thing to be missed on an expensive machine for that machine to fail , that resposability goes all the way to the mechanic who puts oils in it. You dont need me to tell you when a machine fails things will go wrong , i think if you look at current last few months so many aicraft accidents have by the looks of it been down to maintenance errors , i just hope and pray this is not a groing trend. It is a very responsible job that others on station do not see and I think education to everyone else would help.
Nurses save lives , well my experience is doctors save lives , nurses just do things to free up many of the tasks doctors do and in war situations Nurses do a great job. Again maybe I need an eduaction to what actually a Nurse does but dont think that engineering does not save lives , you would be very very surprised.
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BB you have totally misunderstood that statement, I was using that as an example of how a simplified definition of what you do can be interpreted by the none techies out there.
My next statement says exactly what you say.
The point is the lay person doesnt have a grasp of what the techies role is and only see the first part as a basic garage mechanic what your trade sponsors need to do is open peoples eyes to the second 'real' definition.
BillyBunter
Techie & Proud
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ok sorry I misunderstood , pretty easy to do on forum posts
S
spanner_monkey
Guest
well there is definately one way that the upper echelons will take notice of the shortage of man power and crappy pay scales, and appreciate what the lads do for their beer tokens, if every techie was to do everything by the book and do the tasks iaw the ap's to the letter, ie, use the ap every job, use the correct lifting tackle, tools, and basically not skip the corners that most of us seasoned techies do, they will find that they have been asking too much from us all, and that we have been using the old can do attitude to cover up there manning shortfalls, if they want us to do it by the book like they constantly throw in our faces with all these briefs. if we all did this then i reckon the airforce would come to a stand still, no aircraft fixed means a rather embarrased government, they can pick the pieces up afterwards. egg on their faces rather than ours i say.
And hang everybody out to dry in the sandpit ? Nice idea! fishing for a bite
and thats the problem isn't it. We COULD do everything to the letter and make the master race sit up and take notice but we would be screwing over the people who require the jets/choppers the most, which most of us just will not do.
I think the know they have us by the balls and there is nothing we can really do about it.
My personal thoughts are that nothing will happen, we will stay on the same pay level and we will bend over and take it, might sound apathetic but it's what i see happening coz they just dont care!
I think the know they have us by the balls and there is nothing we can really do about it.
My personal thoughts are that nothing will happen, we will stay on the same pay level and we will bend over and take it, might sound apathetic but it's what i see happening coz they just dont care!