A new Pay Spine?

[monobrow]

They did mention getting people to sign for a return of service prior ot the course. I am not sure if this actually happened or not.

AFAIK, those that went to Barry Colledge to get the B1 (I think) for ASTOR have a significant return of service to pay. One I heard had his exit date moved to accomodate this... So no grabbing your licence and bolting for the door...

P.S. No pay rise for them either.

 

[Tubby]

AFAIK, those that went to Barry Colledge to get the B1 (I think) for ASTOR have a significant return of service to pay. One I heard had his exit date moved to accomodate this... So no grabbing your licence and bolting for the door...

P.S. No pay rise for them either.

Off Topic
Fail your fatness test and not give a fcuk and you will be out in no time.
It will bite 'em in the arse one way or another.

 

[worthers]

AFAIK, those that went to Barry Colledge to get the B1 (I think) for ASTOR have a significant return of service to pay. One I heard had his exit date moved to accomodate this... So no grabbing your licence and bolting for the door...

P.S. No pay rise for them either.

No one on Astor went to Barry College to get their licences. There are guys on 5 who went but it's not for The Sentinel. This has come up a few times now.

 

[BillyBunter]

Yeah the vibes I am getting from my seniors is probaly in about 5 years with all the new technology it will be probably be a must at some point to put many through part of the Jar 66. I have no details but from the top of the non commisioned chain and ex QA it will be a requirement eventually. I think it might be the only way to keep a few people in tbh

 

[Dirty Harry]

Just a question,

With the advent of part 145 upon the RAF, when are they going to introduce license pay to aid retention of those individuals with the stamp?

By my reckoning, a Sgt with a B1 or B2, coupled with a type rating and auths, should be given a £15,000 pay rise to make his pay comparable with Civvy street.

TW

Interesting point you've made there TW.

With FSTA a couple of years away and the need to have RAF guys licensed, how do you reward the ones who go on to gain the qualifications? Could you pay a Sgt working on FSTA using his B1 or B2 licence substantially more than a Sgt working on an SH or fast jet squadron? My guess is no as that would disadvantage every other technician in the RAF. By the same token, if you do not reward the guys with the qualifications they will leave at the earliest opportunity as nobody in there right mind is going to stay put working for what is effectively the equivilent of mechanics money in civvy street. You then create another problem in having to retrain guys every couple of years.

The other issue that may cause some friction is the difference in wages between the civvy LAE's and regular RAF guys with licenses. How will the RAF guys feel about the civvy guys being on considerably more money for doing exactly same job?

 

[duffman]

The other issue that may cause some friction is the difference in wages between the civvy LAE's and regular RAF guys with licenses. How will the RAF guys feel about the civvy guys being on considerably more money for doing exactly same job?

A similiar thing already happens at marham in cmu, the sub cons get about 3k (?) more than an sac on level 9. Although the pay difference will be more at Brize, any LAEs heard how much they are offering? As more and more of these jobs appear it makes you think of the X factor pay, it's starting to look weaker and weaker is that particular 'fact'.

 

[Throatarea]

Congratulations

Congratulations

I believe congratulation are in order for the first of the LAEs at a location south of Lincoln. Its has taken them about two years to get their ticket, a bit longer than a GE. I dont think they are going to get any more money though.

I wonder if the trade sponsor actually knows what an LAE is and understands their training and responsibilities.

Well done to the first few of many, me thinks.DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Dirty Harry]

A similiar thing already happens at marham in cmu, the sub cons get about 3k (?) more than an sac on level 9. Although the pay difference will be more at Brize, any LAEs heard how much they are offering? As more and more of these jobs appear it makes you think of the X factor pay, it's starting to look weaker and weaker is that particular 'fact'.

Not heard any figures yet duffman and I'll doubt you'll see the requirement for engineers until well into next year. When you consider your average multi-type rated LAE is on £50-55k basic, that is the kind of money they are going to have to offer as a bare minimum to attract guys. I certainly wouldn't give up my current job where I get to go home every night and see the family to go live out of a suitcase at Brize on the same money. When you factor in a few days overtime every month, that basic salary climbs considerably and £70k plus is easily achievable. Overtime is aplenty out here, will that be the case on FSTA?

I believe congratulation are in order for the first of the LAEs at a location south of Lincoln. Its has taken them about two years to get their ticket, a bit longer than a GE. I dont think they are going to get any more money though.

I wonder if the trade sponsor actually knows what an LAE is and understands their training and responsibilities.

Well done to the first few of many, me thinks.DT_Xtremez_14:

Well done to them!!

I doubt very much the trade sponsor knows anything about the role or the level of responsibility that those guys now have or more importantly, their worth to a civilian organisation. As for not paying them any more money, watch those flood gates open!!

 

[rest have risen above me]

Although these guys have signed a return of service waiver how long until a company finds it worthwhile to pay for a solicitor to get them out of it. If they are working alongside guys on a lot more dosh with less x factor stuff to do how long will their good will last?

 

[Weebl]

Although these guys have signed a return of service waiver how long until a company finds it worthwhile to pay for a solicitor to get them out of it. If they are working alongside guys on a lot more dosh with less x factor stuff to do how long will their good will last?

If you really wanted out, you could do it.

Refuse to do a fitness test, or even do it really badly and then fail to improve. I bet with a bit of work you could even make it look like you were not deliberately trying to get out!

The Air Force is relying on goodwill, they might not realise it but while you are paying people so far under the odds, if they don't want to work, the Air Force does not really have an incentive to make them.

Get on with it or we sack you, brilliant!

 

[Dirty Harry]

Although these guys have signed a return of service waiver how long until a company finds it worthwhile to pay for a solicitor to get them out of it. If they are working alongside guys on a lot more dosh with less x factor stuff to do how long will their good will last?

The return of service is a bit like a bond in the civil game. We sign a bonding agreement which states that the cost of any course must be repaid in full should you decide to leave within a specified time frame on completion of the course. It is meant to discourage folk from getting 'coursed up' then leaving to go and work for somebody else. It does vary from company to company and at my place of work it is 12 months, after that you are a free man. That said, I have known a few guys to leave a couple of days after finishing type courses and whilst the odd one or two have paid up for fear of burning bridges, others have left and have never been chased up. In addition, if you have a type rating that is desirable to another employer, they will often pay any existing bonds you have to get you to go and work for them.

As you say, I'm sure some switched on solicitor will find a hole in the legalities of these so call bonds or ROS and it probably wouldn't stand up.

 

[duffman]

Overtime is aplenty out here, will that be the case on FSTA?

I don't know but I should think there will be, the contract which covers tries to cover every possibility took several years to write up and both parties to agree to. I don't think I'd fancy working there, not least when it first comes in big changes always bring unhappy workers.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I don't think I'd fancy working there, not least when it first comes in big changes always bring unhappy workers.

There will be some serious changes, particularly for the RAF guys who are get involved with the operation. However, I firmly believe these changes will be be for the better as all those legacy issues which currently frustrate the hell out of RAF technicians (clueless officers, ineffective stores systems, jobsworth trades etc. etc.) will be a thing of the past. As the project is privately funded there will be a strong emphasis to meet targets and ultimately make money. The consortium of shareholders will want a return on their investment so the resources will be in place to make that happen.

 

[MrMasher]

Back to pay spines. I notice they made a new one for pilots. Where's ours?
I also see another retention bonus for 5 years return of service for pilots too. £50k. Where's ours?
I also heard that they are binning continuance.
It's almost as if they want droves of techies to leave.

 

[Sospan]

Get your hands on a copy of Tradewise, it obvious the new pay spine is dead in the water.

 

[Downsizer]

I also heard that they are binning continuance.

Good, get rid of some dead wood.

I have to superb Cpls who featured highly on the PB likely to miss out because of dead wood cnuts taking continuance.

 

[Dirty Harry]

I also see another retention bonus for 5 years return of service for pilots too. £50k.

Now that is ludicrous. Why are they trying to retain pilots? I bet in the current climate there aren't too many leaving? The civil industry is awash with them, they're ten a penny and lots are unemployed and will continue to be so for some time to come.

 

[MrMasher]

Now that is ludicrous. Why are they trying to retain pilots? I bet in the current climate there aren't too many leaving? The civil industry is awash with them, they're ten a penny and lots are unemployed and will continue to be so for some time to come.

I read it today in the manning newsletter, or the depression news as I like to call it.

 

[duffman]

There will be some serious changes, particularly for the RAF guys who are get involved with the operation. However, I firmly believe these changes will be be for the better as all those legacy issues which currently frustrate the hell out of RAF technicians (clueless officers, ineffective stores systems, jobsworth trades etc. etc.) will be a thing of the past. As the project is privately funded there will be a strong emphasis to meet targets and ultimately make money. The consortium of shareholders will want a return on their investment so the resources will be in place to make that happen.

Maybe but there will be a few issues as well the whole point of it to make money rather than purely as a part of the RAF.

50k for pilots, I thought it was 100k. Half now, half in 5 years time if they stay in?

About time we got rid of continuance it's blocking lots of people across the rank board. TG1 sac board was very low, if I remember right it was 60 odd from over 1200.

 

[MrMasher]

Have a look at chf to flt sgt. Over 800 in the field! Now where on earth do they all work?