Chf Clks Conference - Any White Smoke?

[Triple SA]

Anybody go/know someone who went? If so, what is the gen?

 

[MyShineyAr$e]

Rumour at the moment but whispers I heard from a FS clk here:

Freeze on drafting of clks into non-trade specific posts.

Proposed recall of those personnel not in a trade specific post.

 

[Humble Scribe]

Annual Personnel Conference

Annual Personnel Conference

Just about sobered up from the evening function (followed by another last night!) and things are slowly coming back to me.

The stuff you want to know about the trade:

DACOS A1 should be a fecking politician as he repeatedly failed to answer the specific questions about the trade. Complete and utter cop out despite previous reassurances that we would find out at the APC. OK so the decisions have not been made yet however they have sent recommendations to COS Pers but failed to tell us what those recommendations were. No hints, nothing - complete & utter wash-out!! Get a grip FLWO!!

There will be a future for the trade with a ceiling of 1377 shineys. Ideal 'pyramid' will be 600 (410 current) AC, 357 (425) Cpl, 219 (435) Sgt, 125 (125) FS, 76(95) WO. Yeah how likely is it that we can recruit 600 AC's and retain them? No fecking chance!!

The 'SAMA Ops' manager posts that were disestablished on intro of JPA will be brought back under the guise of Standards SNCO's. Ideal PMS structure will be shortly publicised in 3392 or 3376.

JPA:

Not a great deal new really. Best news is that from 1 May 07, there will be a flat rate £5.00/Night for IE no receipts, no questions, no problems - good decision.

Understanding of the problems that we face in HR and slowly working out fixes. When Navy/Army fully up to speed more should be done to rectify problem areas.

E-Learning package very good. Tried it today from 'Splach' screen log-in and tells you what you need to know rather than looking in Desk top manuals. You don't have to do the complete E-Learning package just pick the area you want to know.

Manning:

DACOS Manning understood the problems due to lack of known TG 17 future. Currently looking at FMDL at each rank level - decision soon.

Didn't really learn a lot more. Lots of Studies underway but isn't there always? All in all a rather disappointing Conference but should I have expected anymore?

 

[SgtScribbly]

Ideal 'pyramid' will be 600 (410 current) AC, 357 (425) Cpl, 219 (435) Sgt, 125 (125) FS, 76(95) WO.

Plenty of deadwood at Sgt to get rid of then,

 

[True Blue Jack]

Plenty of deadwood at Sgt to get rid of then,

Not good news for Cpls looking to get promoted then (I had a hot tip this week that the quota is 25, but the reinstated SAMA Ops posts may improve that, if it is effected quickly).

 

[Boarderlyne]

Not good news for Cpls looking to get promoted then (I had a hot tip this week that the quota is 25, but the reinstated SAMA Ops posts may improve that, if it is effected quickly).

And the field size is 350! To put it honestly, as TG17, we are hooped! It's back to the bad old days of the 90's when the PSB were looking for 10 to promote when there were 400 in the groove and of that group, most were on Spec Recs for a few years.

 

[Humble Scribe]

And the field size is 350! To put it honestly, as TG17, we are hooped! It's back to the bad old days of the 90's when the PSB were looking for 10 to promote when there were 400 in the groove and of that group, most were on Spec Recs for a few years.

DACOS Manning 3 acknowleged the mistakes of the past and promised that they wouldn't be a repeat. I think this is why they're looking at FMDL at each rank level and they fully appreciate that they have got to promote people to maintain morale. I took the opportunity to speak with our desk and they are completely frustrated with the lack of direction received about the future; we'll have to wait a few more months to hear what's going on.

 

[True Blue Jack]

There will be a future for the trade with a ceiling of 1377 shineys. Ideal 'pyramid' will be 600 (410 current) AC, 357 (425) Cpl, 219 (435) Sgt, 125 (125) FS, 76(95) WO. Yeah how likely is it that we can recruit 600 AC's and retain them? No fecking chance!!

I've been having a little think about that pyramid and how it will apply to my unit. I think the only we could do it would be to disestablish/downgrade the Sqn Adj posts, which frankly would be a disaster. The registries tend to get dumped on by the aircrew, and are not entirely loved by the groundcrew as it is, and that's if you have a strong-willed SNCO running the place.

 

[Woodja]

I've been having a little think about that pyramid and how it will apply to my unit. I think the only we could do it would be to disestablish/downgrade the Sqn Adj posts, which frankly would be a disaster. The registries tend to get dumped on by the aircrew, and are not entirely loved by the groundcrew as it is, and that's if you have a strong-willed SNCO running the place.

Got a nasty suspicion that we are gonna lose the SNCO emabassy posts.

Oh, and is this where you have been spending all your work time *****?

 

[True Blue Jack]

Got a nasty suspicion that we are gonna lose the SNCO emabassy posts.

Oh, and is this where you have been spending all your work time *****?

Cheeky fecker! DT_Xtremez_28: Check the times of day that I post stuff - all outside work time.

I suppose we (royal) could make the Embassy posts available to any trade, but in fairness we don't have 200 sgt posts in Embassies so that would still leave a lot of posts to downgrade/disestablish/civilianise elsewhere. Even if we downgrade Sqn Adj posts and some of the drafters we are still overborne. And according to the 'ideal pyramid' we are already 65-70 cpls over the top. I don't see how we can reduce to 219 sgts without gutting the trade.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

How about putting Trade SNCOs on their respective drafting desks?

 

[Gillo]

Cheeky fecker! DT_Xtremez_28: Check the times of day that I post stuff - all outside work time.

And according to the 'ideal pyramid' we are already 65-70 cpls over the top. I don't see how we can reduce to 219 sgts without gutting the trade.

What a shame but what about everyone else who has been cut to the bone. You human resources lot should have seen it coming, after all the list is not new:
Chippies, Mess managers, kennel maids, Flt Sim, Comcen etc etc etc.

Wait until you lot start applying leaning, contractualisation, quality measures and so on. You make my heart bleed, not a lot. The walls of handbrake house are falling down, oh dear never mind.

PS How many useless Admin Officers go??????????????????????

 

[Humble Scribe]

There is a seperate review by the FCO of the service posts so I expect that that would have some bearing on the amount of SNCO's required. As I said, this was only put forward as an 'Ideal' pyramid and I, for the life of me, cannot see how this will be achieved. Sec Sponsor (whose new title, I can't remember) was confident in his proposals though!

 

[dodgysootie]

Does anyone know if the "rumour" that techy postings from Kinloss are frozen is true?

 

[Triple SA]

How do you get rid of 200+ Sgts?

How do you get rid of 200+ Sgts?

Just how do you get rid of over 200 sgts? Another redundancy round? - is there any money for that (even though the payouts have now been reduced)? Hope that if you treat people poorly enough that they'll just leave?

As to the earlier post of putting other trades in charge of drafting their own, I suspect that when ACOS Manning (nee PMA6 et al) moves to HW there will not be as much opposition to that as their might have been had it remained at Innsworth.

 

[True Blue Jack]

What a shame but what about everyone else who has been cut to the bone. You human resources lot should have seen it coming, after all the list is not new:
Chippies, Mess managers, kennel maids, Flt Sim, Comcen etc etc etc.

Wait until you lot start applying leaning, contractualisation, quality measures and so on. You make my heart bleed, not a lot. The walls of handbrake house are falling down, oh dear never mind.

PS How many useless Admin Officers go??????????????????????

We did see it coming, that doesn't mean we have to like it. We can all agree that civilianisation/contractualisation has gone too far in recent years (look at how often drivers, chefs & MT fitters go OOA). Simulator Techs are another great example. Some mates of mine are now doing the same job they did in uniform, for more money and zero bull$hit. Commcen has been made effectively redundant by the advent of e-mail, and the TG11 sponsor did a fantastic job of protecting his trade by coming up with the concept of TG4. I wish our trade sponsor was so adept.

What others and I have said is that we cannot see how we can re-organise the pyramid as has been suggested. The emphasis now is on individuals taking greater control over their personal admin, but that has (slightly) lessened the load on SAC PD clerks, not on the management. In an increasingly 'expeditionary' Air Force the reliance on deployed admin is greater than ever. Everything to do with setting up and maintaining a DOB involves an admin function somewhere along the line, whether it be transport in and out of theatre, infrastructure management, welfare provision, reviewing manpower levels, payment of allowances, cashier services, the list goes on. This increases, not lessens, the demand for SNCOs.

How about putting Trade SNCOs on their respective drafting desks?

It's an idea that crops up every now and again and dies shortly after the relevant trade sponsor takes a visit to ACOS Manning.

 

[Forestfan]

How about putting Trade SNCOs on their respective drafting desks?

In reality mate I don't see what that would achieve? Still gotta work to a policy, and try to put pegs in holes around the RAF? A bit of trade knowledge may help, but I daresay the drafters hands are pretty tied anyway.

Not that I suggest they always get it right.

FF

 

[Gillo]

We did see it coming, that doesn't mean we have to like it. We can all agree that civilianisation/contractualisation has gone too far in recent years (look at how often drivers, chefs & MT fitters go OOA). Simulator Techs are another great example. Some mates of mine are now doing the same job they did in uniform, for more money and zero bull$hit. Commcen has been made effectively redundant by the advent of e-mail, and the TG11 sponsor did a fantastic job of protecting his trade by coming up with the concept of TG4. I wish our trade sponsor was so adept.

What others and I have said is that we cannot see how we can re-organise the pyramid as has been suggested. The emphasis now is on individuals taking greater control over their personal admin, but that has (slightly) lessened the load on SAC PD clerks, not on the management. In an increasingly 'expeditionary' Air Force the reliance on deployed admin is greater than ever. Everything to do with setting up and maintaining a DOB involves an admin function somewhere along the line, whether it be transport in and out of theatre, infrastructure management, welfare provision, reviewing manpower levels, payment of allowances, cashier services, the list goes on. This increases, not lessens, the demand for SNCOs.


Nice job of justifying yourself on Ops (Adj Gen Corp) so how many Admin Officers do you need to act as Cashier/Welfare Officer then. Lets start cutting from the top i say

 

[Boarderlyne]

We did see it coming, that doesn't mean we have to like it. We can all agree that civilianisation/contractualisation has gone too far in recent years (look at how often drivers, chefs & MT fitters go OOA). Simulator Techs are another great example. Some mates of mine are now doing the same job they did in uniform, for more money and zero bull$hit. Commcen has been made effectively redundant by the advent of e-mail, and the TG11 sponsor did a fantastic job of protecting his trade by coming up with the concept of TG4. I wish our trade sponsor was so adept.

What others and I have said is that we cannot see how we can re-organise the pyramid as has been suggested. The emphasis now is on individuals taking greater control over their personal admin, but that has (slightly) lessened the load on SAC PD clerks, not on the management. In an increasingly 'expeditionary' Air Force the reliance on deployed admin is greater than ever. Everything to do with setting up and maintaining a DOB involves an admin function somewhere along the line, whether it be transport in and out of theatre, infrastructure management, welfare provision, reviewing manpower levels, payment of allowances, cashier services, the list goes on. This increases, not lessens, the demand for SNCOs.


Nice job of justifying yourself on Ops (Adj Gen Corp) so how many Admin Officers do you need to act as Cashier/Welfare Officer then. Lets start cutting from the top i say

Off Topic Off Topic Ours in not the only trade that is top heavy, look at Engineering, Medical, Supply and the rest. if you want to start culling then look across the board, not just narrow in on one trade. We need to be supporting each other, not looking at reasons to slag others trades off. This 'divide and rule' mentality is what allowed the bean-counters to steal so much from the budgets of the Forces to pay for yet another chav estate or latest 'empowerment' farce from Labour HQ. Off Topic Off Topic

Meanwhile, back to the thread! DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Reformed Scribbly]

"Nice job of justifying yourself on Ops (Adj Gen Corp) so how many Admin Officers do you need to act as Cashier/Welfare Officer then. Lets start cutting from the top i say" - Gillo

Explain to me who could do my job as well as me as well as another role and I will happily go.