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Chf Clks Conference - Any White Smoke?

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Triple SA said:
Just how do you get rid of over 200 sgts? Another redundancy round? - is there any money for that (even though the payouts have now been reduced)? Hope that if you treat people poorly enough that they'll just leave?

As to the earlier post of putting other trades in charge of drafting their own, I suspect that when ACOS Manning (nee PMA6 et al) moves to HW there will not be as much opposition to that as their might have been had it remained at Innsworth.
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The move of ACOS Manning to RAF High Wycombe is no different to any other unit move and as other units have shown the personnel involved will continue to provide a professional service despite the location whether they want to be there or not. This will not have an impact on whether other trades will draft their own personnel. This has been discussed many times and the final decision has always been that TG17 are best placed to do this. The alternative as far as I can see is for us to follow the Army route and be drafted by civilians. I know what I would rather have and it involves a blue suit.
 
TG17 - To Draft or not to Draft

TG17 - To Draft or not to Draft

The move of ACOS Manning to RAF High Wycombe is no different to any other unit move and as other units have shown the personnel involved will continue to provide a professional service despite the location whether they want to be there or not.
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I have absolutely no doubt that this will be the case.

This has been discussed many times and the final decision has always been that TG17 are best placed to do this.
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My, admitedly flippant, comment was that there is unlikely to be the same amount of opposition from those who have been lucky enough to spend susbtantial periods of their careers located in the same geographic area (Hereford, Innsworth, Brize etc). I know that others do the same (RAF Lincolnshire etc), but, to an outsider, they do not have as much influence over achieving their preference of posting as Innsworth based personnel do.

As to whether being posted by a civvy or a servicenman would be better, at least us non-PMA types would stand a fair chance of getting 'gucci' overseas postings (joke -well sort of).

Anyway, must repeat 5 times-a-day " there is no TG17 mafia, there is no TG17 mafia".
 
best placed???

best placed???

Have read the ACOS brief- all sounds very bleak for you and obviously us as your customers (? does that mean we are always right now ?) does that mean the two hour lunch breaks are out the window..(joke don't DWR me!!)

Off Topic if the guy on the desk knew the role you can fit the guys to the jobs.
My trade (TG3) have radar guys in IT slots and airfield guys off to satcomm areas, maybe on aircraft a bit more obvious. But even they seem to be swapping roles now they are muli skilled.
Areas of choice is important to us and needs to be managed, but the type of jobs we do are so varied we are better specialising a bit, and yes we can adapt and be trained to the new job but why waste the money and experience.

The number of times I have spoken to people that spend an OOA (or a posting) doing a job they have never done (or wanted to do) while I go away doing there job that I have never done is unbelievable.

Jack of all trades but very few masters left.....shame....rant over sorry
 
Triple SA said:
As to whether being posted by a civvy or a servicenman would be better, at least us non-PMA types would stand a fair chance of getting 'gucci' overseas postings (joke -well sort of).

Anyway, must repeat 5 times-a-day " there is no TG17 mafia, there is no TG17 mafia".
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Of course there is a PMA Mafia and even they (secretly) admit that is true but it is not an exclusive club and anyone can join - you only have to ask. You can't really sit in RAF Scotland or Lincolnshire etc and complain about them if you haven't ever volunteered to do the job and 'infiltrate' the Mafia.

I have been 'lucky' enough to be posted to Inns twice in my career but have never been part of the mafia - honestly!! I have also been fortunate enough to be offered a Gucci posting to Ramstein but only because nobody else volunteered and it was trawled twice!!

You can see my point here! OK not everyone fancies doing the CM job's but, in the main, they do a fairly good job and the rest of us shouldn't complain unless we have at least tried it. I suspect that many of the faces will be changing with the move along the A40; lets see if anything changes with some new blood.
 
OK not everyone fancies doing the CM job's but, in the main, they do a fairly good job and the rest of us shouldn't complain unless we have at least tried it.
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I agree that they do a good job - and have already said that I have no doubt that they will continue to provide a 'professional service'. But the fact that I have never wanted to be a CM does not mean that I cannot gripe about the perception that the playing field does not seem level when it comes to 'gucci' overseas jobs, getting your first choice of posting, and even a better chance of promotion. (personally i doubt that the last bit is true). I have never wanted to be a politician or a member of a boy band, but you should hear me griping about them!

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from. Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour. But I know that it is not possible, we haven't got the manpower to waste time doing it and it would serve little purpose, except to silence whinging funkers like me.
 
Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from.
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I agree it would be very interesting and perhaps an external selection body, on the lines of a promotion board, would be a fairer way of selecting those to go forward to interview. I further believe that, under the new 'volunteer' system, ACOS Manning should publish the number of volunteers they had for each post and the seniority of the individual selected; at the moment you don't even get told if you've not been selected FFS!

Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour.
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Another bug-bear of mine! Understandably there are more PMA Sgts getting promoted as there are more of them but the RO's obviously know what it takes to get someone promoted and uses that in their favour. I'm told that being a CM gives you a higher profile on a PSB but why should it be any different from, say, a SNCO PSF? Told you I wasn't Mafia!
 
Triple SA said:
I agree that they do a good job - and have already said that I have no doubt that they will continue to provide a 'professional service'. But the fact that I have never wanted to be a CM does not mean that I cannot gripe about the perception that the playing field does not seem level when it comes to 'gucci' overseas jobs, getting your first choice of posting, and even a better chance of promotion. (personally i doubt that the last bit is true). I have never wanted to be a politician or a member of a boy band, but you should hear me griping about them!

Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from. Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour. But I know that it is not possible, we haven't got the manpower to waste time doing it and it would serve little purpose, except to silence whinging funkers like me.
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Try the Freedom of Information Act.. That would keep someone busy!

My drafter is great!!!
 
Triple SA said:
Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from. Also the ratio of those getting promoted from sgt onwards would be interesting, realising of course that as there are so many TG17 at PMA, it may seem to be skewed in their favour. But I know that it is not possible, we haven't got the manpower to waste time doing it and it would serve little purpose, except to silence whinging funkers like me.
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When I left PMA to go overseas (and only then because I was at No1 on the list after 10 years) the % of TG17 Sgts at Innsworth was between 40-45% of the TG in total. I am sure that 7 years on the numbers must be fairly similar thus it should come as no surprise to see so many feature on PSL etc.
 
KingGuin said:
When I left PMA to go overseas (and only then because I was at No1 on the list after 10 years) the % of TG17 Sgts at Innsworth was between 40-45% of the TG in total. I am sure that 7 years on the numbers must be fairly similar thus it should come as no surprise to see so many feature on PSL etc.
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Just to back up KG, when you consider the number of TG17 sgts at PMA it's gonna be kind of difficult to stand out from the crowd. The last 2 sgt-FS prom boards appear to have strongly favoured people with recent PSF experience, presumably because they're the ones with most to offer the JPA transition - on paper at least.
 
As an ex-drafter I can see why people accuse PMA of running a "Mafia". However, it is simply a case of those pers who wanted to go to Innsworth generally got there because so many tried to avoid the place. The ratio of those selected for "Gucci" tours will always seem a little out of kilter because of the number of TG17 who are at Innsworth, or have served there. And of course, Innsworth is not just about drafters, there are (or were) a number of other areas where TG17 were employed (AIS22, AFPAA, HQPTC etc etc). Lets hope the umber of vols for drafting increases with the move to High Wycombe.
 
tommo9999 said:
Lets hope the umber of vols for drafting increases with the move to High Wycombe.
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Now you know that won't happen. I know a number of ex-drafters who would love to go back to it (preferably as a FS) but really don't want to go to HW. I wouldn't mind betting you're one of those.:PDT_Xtremez_26:
 
Fair enough, I wouldn't want to go back as a Sgt because I've been there, done that etc etc. I would go back as a FS (Unlikely I know!!), although Wycombe wouldn't be my first AOC by any stretch.
 
I've had 3 tours since I left PMA; each time I 've moved I've been asked if I wanted to go back. To date I have never been tempted. However I loved the job but found it quite a strange environment and often wondered if it was just me? Mind you if I ever reach the dizzy hiegihts of WO I could be tempted back as Godfather!!!!
 
Humble Scribe said:
Another bug-bear of mine! Understandably there are more PMA Sgts getting promoted as there are more of them but the RO's obviously know what it takes to get someone promoted and uses that in their favour. I'm told that being a CM gives you a higher profile on a PSB but why should it be any different from, say, a SNCO PSF? Told you I wasn't Mafia!
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Really Humble Scribe, you are quite incorrect here with regards to the promotion board as the recent one has proven. Being a CM does not give you a higher profile it seems SNCO PSF is the job to have.
 
Blonde Bitch said:
Really Humble Scribe, you are quite incorrect here with regards to the promotion board as the recent one has proven. Being a CM does not give you a higher profile it seems SNCO PSF is the job to have.
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BB, I think you'll find I'm actually quite correct as you well know! I was well behind the CM's on the board. You should have known that being on the p!ss with them last weekend!!
 
Triple SA said:
Not sure what the stats are, but would be interested to see the % of tg17 based in Embassies and 'gucci' overseas postings (not really including NWE or Cyprus) that are ex PMA, factoring in how many applied and which Units they came from.
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Too f*cking many IMHO - and i've yet to see a TG17 SNCO who has bothered to learn the bloody language for the country they're working in.

I knew of a waffy sgt who had had about 4 or 5 embassy jobs, fcuk knows how cos she was thick as pigsh!t. Couldn't be assed to learn the language which gets my goat when there are non-TG17 ers who would do the job 100 times better...

What goes around comes around, shineys... 'fraid there won't be many damp eyes outside Handbrake Houses....

:raf:
 
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