CRC South

[Ana-Prop]

Does anybody know what life is like at CRC South?

 

[Fearless Leader]

Does anybody know what life is like at CRC South?

Sunny Scampton or Griffin? Lol! Planning a posting by any chance? DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Ana-Prop]

Sunny Scampton Fearless... rarther than Rainny Boulmer....

 

[Fearless Leader]

I don't know much, the feeling up here is that they don't do much work! But that could be just sour grapes. Lol. You don't know anybody there?

 

[holedweller]

I don't know much, the feeling up here is that they don't do much work! But that could be just sour grapes. Lol. You don't know anybody there?

When we visited (not for very long) a few months ago, we understood that their view was that they were not given much work to do.

Certainly whilst we were there Ops was deserted.

Nice working environment though - I dont think I could put up with the commute every day though.

 

[mad_collie]

Does anybody know what life is like at CRC South?

It is allegedly patrolled by a sheepdog.

 

[Never Alert]

I don't know much, the feeling up here is that they don't do much work! But that could be just sour grapes. Lol. You don't know anybody there?

The fact of the matter is simple. Boulmer won't pass on the work because the heads of sheds are scared ****less that the place will close if they give Scampton any real swing.

1ACC is going to be leaning it's manpower into CRC Scampton, which will provide a proper core of manning for both CRC Ops & Op Herrick. Boulmer may well start to look like the unwanted relative in the near future!!

The new Gp Cpt ASACS is not a Boulmer fan so, watch this space!!

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Bah Humbug

Bah Humbug

CRC South had the option to work either Xmas or New Year to help out it poor cousins in the frozen North!

Wherever the SFC is controls what CRC will have the lion's share. With all IDO training done on live (8 students on various modules at the moment, with another course just starting) it is not possible for the south to do the work. Add to this the WC training and you must be able to see the problem.

Now this also causes problems for the rest of us. How can the non IDO/WC types in the sunny south even begin to keep any kind of operational currency?

Taking all of this into account, plus the fact we are keeping an Airfield open for non operational flying and a dead dog (new callsign perhaps?) then the sensible option is to move everyone back to the frozen north. Then we could all complain together!

I'm willing to start the petition to close the south forever, send your views on a postcard to the Force Commander....

DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Never Alert]

CRC South had the option to work either Xmas or New Year to help out it poor cousins in the frozen North!

Wherever the SFC is controls what CRC will have the lion's share. With all IDO training done on live (8 students on various modules at the moment, with another course just starting) it is not possible for the south to do the work. Add to this the WC training and you must be able to see the problem.

Now this also causes problems for the rest of us. How can the non IDO/WC types in the sunny south even begin to keep any kind of operational currency?

Taking all of this into account, plus the fact we are keeping an Airfield open for non operational flying and a dead dog (new callsign perhaps?) then the sensible option is to move everyone back to the frozen north. Then we could all complain together!

I'm willing to start the petition to close the south forever, send your views on a postcard to the Force Commander....

DT_Xtremez_28:

The solution is fairly straight forward: attach SFC agents to CRC Scampton & allow them to take some of the trg away from Boulmer. Scampton could easily handle a decent workload of Phase II + trg.

I'm starting ADFC soon & although I have no problems moving up to BL, I'd like to think that Scampton could be a possibilty for baby WCs & IDOs in the near future.

Once the decision has been made on the Reds (anytime soon), Scampton will be able to settle down & get on with the job in earnest.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

The fact of the matter is simple. Boulmer won't pass on the work because the heads of sheds are scared ****less that the place will close if they give Scampton any real swing.

Which was the plan in the first place. drawdown Boulmer. Should never have drawndown Neatishead.

 

[Never Alert]

Which was the plan in the first place. drawdown Boulmer. Should never have drawndown Neatishead.

Interesting times ahead. If they do draw down BL, then I hope they do it slow time in order to allow the people up there a decent chance to find their feet.

The Neat & Buchan closures were badly handled & driven on financial aspects alone.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

The solution is fairly straight forward: attach SFC agents to CRC Scampton & allow them to take some of the trg away from Boulmer. Scampton could easily handle a decent workload of Phase II + trg.

I'm starting ADFC soon & although I have no problems moving up to BL, I'd like to think that Scampton could be a possibilty for baby WCs & IDOs in the near future.

Once the decision has been made on the Reds (anytime soon), Scampton will be able to settle down & get on with the job in earnest.

Whilst I admire your optimism, do other training schools (Cosford et al) move phase 2 trainees outside of the training environment? If we start to move JO and SNCO professional training away from the SFC then should BTT and FTT follow? Then we wouldn't need the SFC and all professional standardisation can be a thing of the past!!

Until the whole RAF Lincolnshire problem solves itself then we are actually better with the status quo. From a purely military point of view, waiting until NATO ACCS comes on line and moving everything to Leeming to co-locate with the A6 types (the original aim of Scampton) would be a more sensible option.

As always though we are at the mercy of the beancounters - decisions will always be based on financial reasoning, Scampton may stay because it is unlikely that the Reds can go elsewhere, Boulmer makes little sense to close because the land does not belong to Defence Estates. Both have had large quantities of money spent in recent years.

As for getting on with the job in earnest, I am more than willing to let people from the south work after 5 and weekends to let my shift have some time off!!

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Interesting times ahead. If they do draw down BL, then I hope they do it slow time in order to allow the people up there a decent chance to find their feet.

The Neat & Buchan closures were badly handled & driven on financial aspects alone.

They were not Closed, they were drawn down to basically engineering units. However I would agree, that the project was financial driven, and will in the long run most likely cost more than it saved in things like fuel costs. Not well managed at all.

 

[Never Alert]

As for getting on with the job in earnest, I am more than willing to let people from the south work after 5 and weekends to let my shift have some time off!!

If you're not getting your days off, then that is your line manager's problem.

There is no shortage of manpower at BL whilst the Flights at Scampton are actually quite small.

 

[Never Alert]

They were not Closed, they were drawn down to basically engineering units. However I would agree, that the project was financial driven, and will in the long run most likely cost more than it saved in things like fuel costs. Not well managed at all.

Apologies, I was referring to the the closure from a TG12 aspect.

As one of the last out of Buchan, I can honestly say that it was a rolling goat from start to finish with Neat's closure being even worse.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Ooh, watch you missus!

Ooh, watch you missus!

If you're not getting your days off, then that is your line manager's problem.

There is no shortage of manpower at BL whilst the Flights at Scampton are actually quite small.

You obviously aren't a line manager!! Getting the days off is not the problem, just the chisling around at 4.30 when South need to go home. Some days it would be easier if everything stays in the North, nothing personal against yous down there, some of my best friends are there, but just a nause when certain functions are held in the south when the North CRC has TACON of everything else.

I also agree that there is no manpower shortage at CRC south EXCEPT in certain exec roles (ask your surveillance Flight Commanders if you disagree). Whilst this is not technically a shortage against establishment, it causes problems for the execs on a day to day basis (ever see the SD spend the whole day in the ops room?)

Basically it is down to us all to just get on with it. People are paid far more than us to make the decisions and that is what you could have been if you had stuck in at school!!DT_Xtremez_42:

MAINJAFAD, where do you propose that the Neat people lived after the drawdown of Coltishall??

 

[Never Alert]

You obviously aren't a line manager!! Getting the days off is not the problem, just the chisling around at 4.30 when South need to go home. Some days it would be easier if everything stays in the North, nothing personal against yous down there, some of my best friends are there, but just a nause when certain functions are held in the south when the North CRC has TACON of everything else.

Fair point matey, fair point.

I'm not sure if Scampton has the same excuse as Buchan did however, STC dictated that CRC Buchan was not to provide a radar service post 1700. This limitation forced the Buchan MC to hand everything over prior to 1700 & in order to not interfere with aircrew trg, sorties that started anytime after 1615 were of no use to Buchan.

Despite the above, some responsibilities must be passed south in order to maintain currency for the Weaponeers, Surv guys, EWOs & DLMs. It's a pain in the ass however, it has to be done.

 

[holedweller]

Whilst I admire your optimism, do other training schools (Cosford et al) move phase 2 trainees outside of the training environment? If we start to move JO and SNCO professional training away from the SFC then should BTT and FTT follow? Then we wouldn't need the SFC and all professional standardisation can be a thing of the past!!

Did we not do this when there was no CRC at Boulmer? Did it cause too many problems then? If the south are not getting enough work is not 'skills fade' going to be a major issue with those personnel?

I cannot think of any other trade that you can compare with the FC training structure of Phase 1/2.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Training Terminology et al

Training Terminology et al

I cannot think of any other trade that you can compare with the FC training structure of Phase 1/2.

All trades have phase training - Phase 1 is RTS/IOT (Halton/Cranwell), Phase 2 is professional training (in an RAF/JS Training School) and Phase 3/4 are continuation training.

I think you are refering to the old way of FC training (Phase 1-5) that went out some time ago.

A visit to the Training Directive and the RAF Manual of Training for you me thinks!!

So comparison with other trades is made from a position of strength.

When there was no CRC at Boulmer then it was not the ideal position for the SFC I grant you, however now it is and unless the finance to build ANOTHER custom designed school building can be found (is Scampton really suitable?) then there is no real choice other than to stay in the sunny North for the near future.

IMHO the future lies at Leeming; Single CRC providing manpower to the DACCS (1/2 and 3 ACC if necessary) whilst avoiding the skill fade that you allude to in your post.

At least this thread has prompted some intelligent debate on the subject!!

NotAnIDO....YET!!!!

 

[Never Alert]

All trades have phase training - Phase 1 is RTS/IOT (Halton/Cranwell), Phase 2 is professional training (in an RAF/JS Training School) and Phase 3/4 are continuation training.

I think you are refering to the old way of FC training (Phase 1-5) that went out some time ago.

A visit to the Training Directive and the RAF Manual of Training for you me thinks!!

So comparison with other trades is made from a position of strength.

When there was no CRC at Boulmer then it was not the ideal position for the SFC I grant you, however now it is and unless the finance to build ANOTHER custom designed school building can be found (is Scampton really suitable?) then there is no real choice other than to stay in the sunny North for the near future.

IMHO the future lies at Leeming; Single CRC providing manpower to the DACCS (1/2 and 3 ACC if necessary) whilst avoiding the skill fade that you allude to in your post.

At least this thread has prompted some intelligent debate on the subject!!

NotAnIDO....YET!!!!

IMHO, 1ACC will never get anywhere near Leeming. Should 1ACC leave Kirton, it will almost certainly not venture north infact, all talk seems to indicate Scampton or Waddo. It might also be worth pointing out that the A6 Air Cdr has absolutley no time for 1ACC whatsoever however, he is an John Cleese lookalike & has a major ego issue!

I do see you theory about Leeming and it ain't a bad one however, there will never be a 2 or 3ACC, 1 ACC is struggling to survive as it is & Op Herrick has provided a lifeline in the short term. Post Op Herrick, I suspect that the money will dry up. Not ideal but more than likely.

IMHO, if the Reds stay at Scampton (looking very likely) then the CRC is safe.
Boulmer is a simply not a long term option. The land surrounding the Unit is far too expensive to purchase for any future expansion of accomodation & that kills it. Should Scampton get it's new runway then why the hell would they move 1ACC up to Leeming where the runway would not be refurbished?

SFC could move into a rennovated building without any major problems, if a CRC can do it then I'm sure the SFC could too.

How about closing BL, pushing Scampton 24/7 & having a day time CRC at CY, where the air defenders can actually work together?

Bottom line is this: Who would want to live at Leeming? It's in the middle of nowhere & is falling apart on a scale that makes Scampton look 5 star!

Never Alert.