Demotion to SAC

[OK..Igiveup]

I blame the parents, or in this case the spineless best buddie SNCOs. Surely a quick
'SAC Bloggs is a great airman but has not managed to find the time/ motivation to complete his BTEC'
in the 6000 would have alerted the board the guy is not suitable to manage personel/ tasks if he cant get his own life sorted.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Been looking into the requirements for promotion as it's SAC assessment time at the moment and I thought all the SAC's needed to complete the distance learning package for their BTEC before being eligible for promotion (been out of the loop for the last 3 years in Cyprus), but the 3 SAC's in my section, all with around 12-18 months out of Cosford all have theirs from their course. Seems to have gone full circle and Cosford are making sure the required elements are completed before they leave (or has it changed again). But as i posted earlier for those that have yet to complete their BTEC promotion is available and they can do their BTEC later, which as far as I'm concerned is promoting laziness.

As for the whole "It was better in the old days" ie before they started training SAC (T)'s and we used to get SAC's (Mechs) and JT's be they DE or Fitters, You've got my vote.DT_Xtremez_14:

The original plan with the SAC(T) was that the BTEC was required for promotion back in 1998 when the course and Trade Structure was being developed, However due to lack of people getting the distance learning package finished and a shortage of two stripes the requirement of the BTEC was dropped (plus the qualification that was selected by Locking was stopped by the qualification organisation). As for the current BTEC coming out of Cosford, its a short one (6 modules I believe) and not the one got with the distance learning package on the original Eng Tech El SAC(T) qualification to Cpl route (which was short compared with the one I got back in the 1980's out of Locking). Bring back the Promex, that’s what I say (TG12 have done that already).

 

[MrMasher]

Eng TECH ie TG3, probably the worst insult you could give us is to call us peanuts. ::/:

And I thought they were all window lickers........ummmm I meant to say they all hate being called window lickers.......or something...........

Hee hee hee hee


Anyway, OK I give up said "Cpls now just seem to be doing the JT job. I dont seem to have changed responsabilities now from my first shift as JT a decade ago, looking after an SAC, I just look after (support) a few junior Cpls"

Spot on.

 

[rugby then work]

Think the promex may have to come back in with the dumbing down of the trade, it's not the fault of the lads coming out of training but the general level of ‘technician?’ arriving in sections now has seriously gone down hill over the last few years. We still get some bright sparks but they are becoming fewer and further between.

I'm still looking for a bit of guidance on how we're supposed to deal with the OM's with respect to streaming them towards CIS Tech or IM, I asked the question of our Flt Lt the other day and he didn't have a clue. Anyone out there know if we're going to comment on their 6000 or is it going to be done some other way?

 

[Dingbat]

As a SNEC, the thing that concerns me most, and something not addressed yet is the lack of General Service Knowledge they show. I am constantly being asked questions any competent Cpl would know, usually from having done some time in the RAF. As an LAC (many moons ago), the only time I saw my SNEC was to get a shoeing for being a dumb fcuk (usually deserved). If I wanted to know anything I went an saw my shift Cpl. A cpl really was a demi-God in those days, not just 'mate'.
Technical knowledge can be taught, after all some do spend time out of trade and then get promoted, but GSK? Nope, that needs time in to learn.

 

[Dingbat]

Anyone out there know if we're going to comment on their 6000 or is it going to be done some other way?

In the 'Comment on career development' box, a simple sentence to the effect that 'completion of their BTEC should be their priority to enable them to be eligible for promotion' gets the message across I would imagine. If you feel that their not having completed the BTEC is an issue, you can always use it to show how they get a lower than expected promotion recommendation, either in the individual comment boxes or the summary. One thought though, if this has not been mentioned in the six monthly assessments it wouldn't be right to put it in their annual. You have to give them the chance to address any shortcomings in the 6-monthly. Mention it in passing though during the interview and if they haven’t completed it come next year, you can hang them out to dry for lack of commitment etc.

Not teaching to suck eggs btw, just my opinion.

 

[MrMasher]

As a SNEC, the thing that concerns me most, and something not addressed yet is the lack of General Service Knowledge they show. I am constantly being asked questions any competent Cpl would know, usually from having done some time in the RAF. As an LAC (many moons ago), the only time I saw my SNEC was to get a shoeing for being a dumb fcuk (usually deserved). If I wanted to know anything I went an saw my shift Cpl. A cpl really was a demi-God in those days, not just 'mate'.
Technical knowledge can be taught, after all some do spend time out of trade and then get promoted, but GSK? Nope, that needs time in to learn.

Kind of what I was saying earlier.
These days the ranks dont really matter do they. Cpl and below do the work and Sgt and above are adminners, apart from when you need independant checks.
Should just bin ranks and make us producer and manager.
I remember getting slapped for giving the charlie papa lima a bit of lip when I were a little un. Used to happen about once a week regardless of whether I gave him any lip or not!
These days the rank of Cpl is just a joke.
Anyone remember GST/JMLC and all the things a Cpl is responsible for? Lets be honest now..........has anything really change on promotion? Are we entrusted with all these new responsibilities? Only when someone screws up and fault is being applied!!

 

[rugby then work]

In the 'Comment on career development' box, a simple sentence to the effect that 'completion of their BTEC should be their priority to enable them to be eligible for promotion' gets the message across I would imagine. If you feel that their not having completed the BTEC is an issue, you can always use it to show how they get a lower than expected promotion recommendation, either in the individual comment boxes or the summary. One thought though, if this has not been mentioned in the six monthly assessments it wouldn't be right to put it in their annual. You have to give them the chance to address any shortcomings in the 6-monthly. Mention it in passing though during the interview and if they haven’t completed it come next year, you can hang them out to dry for lack of commitment etc.

Not teaching to suck eggs btw, just my opinion.

Dingbat, I was asking about the streaming of Operator maintainers towards CIS Tech or IM and how that was going to be controlled. Are we as SNCO's going to get a say on their 6000's or is PMA going to use a dart board to decide who goes onto further training as a CIS tech and who continues as an OM/IM.

Already commnt on the lazy b*ggers who can't be arrsed to complete their BTEC.

 

[Realist78]

demotion to SAC

demotion to SAC

"Anyone remember GST/JMLC and all the things a Cpl is responsible for? Lets be honest now..........has anything really change on promotion? Are we entrusted with all these new responsibilities? "

So where do we start if we want to change things? Is it the new, shiny, post JMLC Cpl who asks for additional responsibilities, or is it the SNCOs who don't empower the Cpls? From what I have seen over many years it's the Cpls increasingly sitting back and wanting to be more like SACs/JTs. Admittedly, certainly in the techie world, things are a bit more laid back but that doesn't mean that discipline etc has to disappear.

 

[Dingbat]

I was asking about the streaming of Operator maintainers towards CIS Tech or IM and how that was going to be controlled. Are we as SNCO's going to get a say on their 6000's or is PMA going to use a dart board to decide who goes onto further training as a CIS tech and who continues as an OM/IM.

Can't say for sure as all the posts where I am are tagged CIS Tech, but I'd hope we get an input. If they are rotated on a 6 (ish) monthly basis to give them an idea of all the facets of the trade, shouldn't we be doing a truncated 6000D on them? This would then be included in their personal file for whoever finally makes the decision. Means more writing for us, but that goes with the job.

Realist: you can only go so far with trying to empower the Cpls but when you keep getting let down, you end up treating them like SAC/JT's.

Bring back the shoeing I say DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[Mug?]

no 6000d

no 6000d

Off Topic By the time we get to the first OMs getting streamed we will be on JPA appraisals, which wont even be tailored to RAF life, let alone a trade. I hear they got steamrolled by the army (again) I even heard a rumour that the secondary duties box has gone and all the number cats have changed to just a letter grade . ie A for effort C for weapon accuracy?


Back on topic
I had to have certain pre reqs for promotion english was one i think surely this still applies and would take BTEC into account

 

[I_Luv_TG3]

J/T's to Cpl

J/T's to Cpl

IHateTcw - You must be really s#?t if you haven't picked up your tapes yet. Can't think of another J/T in the trade. You been a bad lad?