If I Was Trade Sponsor I Would

[Chad Norman]

How about letting you start fixing Chinneys or Toncs now shineys are about to be paid as techies cos your fed up sharpening pencils with JPA and there ain,t much of a job anymore .DT_Xtremez_28:

Gillo, shame on you DT_Xtremez_24:

Just because a certain trade doesn't require good aptitude scores/qualfiications, spend years in technical training schools, work life shortening shift patterns (in the very best UK weather!) and actually be held accountable for what they produce (possibly in the most serious way), surely it doesn't mean that this trade shouldn't receive what used to amount to a skilled wage!!! DT_Xtremez_35:

Gillo, the RAF has changed mate, we've just got accept it. Techies have lost the recognition which they once had and having just received visits from an MP and CAS in a sandy place, my impression that the 'bosses' give a damn about the feeling of Aircraft Technicians has taken a serious nose dive, they don't.

Let the Scribblies rejoice, at least someones happy.


Chad

TG17, yes, I know its all very boring

DT_Xtremez_44:

 

[TDJ]

Perhaps if the Techies got on with doing their job, rather than whinging all the time and threatening to abandon ship, then maybe you may get some recognition and respect (oh and getting the servicing rate a bit higher than 30%) - untill then keep pursuing your PVRs - less techies = more TG17 wages

 

[PVRisthefuture]

If I was trade sponsor, I would practice my backswing down at the driving range, go on "fact finding expeditions" to the states, take long weekends and work half days. I might even try doing "the lads" out of a job, where possible, ensuring a speedy promotion!

Well, there's no point messing with a business model that works.

 

[Shiney Scot]

If I was the Trade Sponsor, I would disband the Branch. What do they truly have to offer? The amalgamation of the Loggies and Caterers has left the Branch out on a limb! Future Commissioned administrators should come from the ranks. Hopefully they will then be experienced enough to introduce radical, new policies that benefit all. I would also remove the Trade Sponsor post from Air Cmd and place it at another unit so that the individual in post could get on with the job without any day to day political interference.

 

[millie]

I think he is doing a good job. I liaise with him frequently in my role and his views and goals are very positive in how the trade should be going etc. Some good ideas on here, but give it a chance, the trade is pretty messy right now.

 

[Shiney Scot]

As I do not work that closely with him it would be nice if he published his views and goals on how he intends to take the trade forward! Others might have similar or better ideas! Therefore, back on topic - if I were the TS I would publish my Top 10 list of things to do so that we could all discuss and work towards.

 

[Triple SA]

As I do not work that closely with him it would be nice if he published his views and goals on how he intends to take the trade forward! Others might have similar or better ideas! Therefore, back on topic - if I were the TS I would publish my Top 10 list of things to do so that we could all discuss and work towards.

Cross thread reply, but one such Top 10 could be -

'Why FSs are filling WO posts on OOA'

There may be a good reason for it, but I'm not sure that even Tony Blair could put a positive spin on that one. Though of course it may not be the doing of the trade sponsor alone, as I would like to think that they would be challenged by someone to justify such an ill thought out policy.

 

[sorbs]

In fairness to the present TS it was the previous TS who I was told stated that WO's shouldn't go OOA.

 

[ForgottenName]

I watch this blog with interest.

I would just ask one question. Why if we think that FS are the same as Army WOs, has the decision to stop putting FS (with SPAR) in some WO OOA slots stopped. I believe it is because we aren't as good as we think we are.

 

[ReluctantClerk]

Or maybe it's to stop the Army taking the p1ss and abusing our rank structure and slow (in comparison) promotion - quick Staff get another rank up, even if you are only 17, so it can be joint with a capital A and we can be in charge! DT_Xtremez_15:

There are plenty of RAF Sgts who have filled WO1/2 slots up until recently, so I have to disagree and my own impression of the last lot of Army AGC SSgts I had to work with (because it certainly wasn't for) have been immature, at times extremely unprofessional, and in one case almost a psycho. DT_Xtremez_25:

Any Army personnel reading this please don't think this is a sweeping statement re AGC SSgts, it is a matter of opinion from my last tour OOA only. I have worked with plenty of other Army and Navy personnel from different trades, ranks and corps who have been brilliant - at their jobs and as people.

 

[Drill Instructor]

As I do not work that closely with him it would be nice if he published his views and goals on how he intends to take the trade forward! Others might have similar or better ideas! Therefore, back on topic - if I were the TS I would publish my Top 10 list of things to do so that we could all discuss and work towards.

In addition to this I would like to see civilian recognised trade related qualifications to develop TG17 personnel encouraged and possibly time assigned to personnel to do these. We spend a long time in each rank, too long in my opinion, in between courses when we could be developing our skills. JPA highlighted this when we bought a civilian HR package off the shelf and nobody had a clue what to do then after 48 hrs training we were even more confused.

Also I would like to see accurate TG17 stats published including per rank No of posts established and filled at each location i.e. BZN 4 Sgts Est 3 Posts Filled 1 Gapped, No of personnel downgraded and OOA posts.

 

[Boarderlyne]

Just to add my tuppence worth in.

Let's see a bit more open-ness in the ACOS Manning methods of working. As I have never worked near PMA/ACOS, I can only guess at how they operate. And some guesses are a bit more wild than others!

Get more Wobbly's on the OOAs as most Army (not all, but many) see our FS's as glorified Staffies and not as we see them as WO2 equivalents.

Do a lot more swaps, so that SAC X in PSF swops with SAC Y on the Sqn after 12 months on a Stn. It would help many to break away from the "Heartbreak House" mentality as it would benefit the PSF guru and the Sqn guru.

As Tommo has said on many an occasion, get rid of this 90% FMDL at Sgt and hold up the promotion at a lower rank. I and many others waited a chuffing long time to get our tapes, so why should our current crop get instant gratification?

On release of the Promotion Board List, bring back the most senior and the most junior in rank. While not the happiest of news, it at least gave us an idea of who was moving up the food-chain.

As said before, get more accreditation for SFA, Cashier, etc as we do all these courses and get very little recognition in the outside world for being the IT geeks on the front end of a system. Back end of the system is for all those TG4's! DT_Xtremez_30:

And to end on a lighter note, if KG gets a SWO job, please let me know where as I will love to watch the effect on that Unit! DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[KingGuin]

And to end on a lighter note, if KG gets a SWO job, please let me know where as I will love to watch the effect on that Unit! DT_Xtremez_42:

BL, I feel very mistunderstood - underneath my shouty exterior, I just want to be loved - yeah right!

 

[busbyboy]

BL, I feel very mistunderstood - underneath my shouty exterior, I just want to be loved - yeah right!

For goodness sake man, you'll need to get a haircut first before you could possibly qualify to be a SWO! And you certainly do not want to do it at your present station since the particular growbag types are a load of ....ers (fill in the blanks as required) and you will get no support whatsoever - but I guess you already know that.

And another thing, you'll need to build a new jail - but then again you could probably arrange that where you are now.

Must be time for a leave ban soon (oops, Absence...).

Civvy Street is all it's cracked up to be - no regrets.

Best of luck.

 

[KingGuin]

For goodness sake man, you'll need to get a haircut first before you could possibly qualify to be a SWO! And you certainly do not want to do it at your present station since the particular growbag types are a load of ....ers (fill in the blanks as required) and you will get no support whatsoever - but I guess you already know that.

And another thing, you'll need to build a new jail - but then again you could probably arrange that where you are now.

Must be time for a leave ban soon (oops, Absence...).

Civvy Street is all it's cracked up to be - no regrets.

Best of luck.

Off Topic BB nice to have you back, I guess since your team has chucked away the league you'll be looking for a new hobby Off Topic

 

[POB]

Do a lot more swaps, so that SAC X in PSF swops with SAC Y on the Sqn after 12 months on a Stn. It would help many to break away from the "Heartbreak House" mentality as it would benefit the PSF guru and the Sqn guru.

Sorry to but in on your thread, but thought a little from a different trade group might be beneficial. TG9, (ATC and Ops types) had the aspiration a few years ago (before the latest changes, which are not pertinent here) to move the assistants between Tower and Ops to broaden the individuals experience and trade knowledge. The unfortunate downside to this is the tremendous amount of extra training burden placed on the welcoming section. In the end, for just about every station, it became unworkable for this reason alone. Would PSF (Old name, I know!) be able to loose a person whist he is trained up on the Sqn?

 

[busby1971]

Rotation Rotation Rotation

Rotation Rotation Rotation

Sorry to but in on your thread, but thought a little from a different trade group might be beneficial. TG9, (ATC and Ops types) had the aspiration a few years ago (before the latest changes, which are not pertinent here) to move the assistants between Tower and Ops to broaden the individuals experience and trade knowledge. The unfortunate downside to this is the tremendous amount of extra training burden placed on the welcoming section. In the end, for just about every station, it became unworkable for this reason alone. Would PSF (Old name, I know!) be able to loose a person whist he is trained up on the Sqn?

In my experience it takes about 4 to 6 months to come upto speed in most of the jobs I have done, so personally I've never been an advocate of moving guys (and gals) around. Throughout my years I have only known movement in one direction, best guys to PSF.

 

[KingGuin]

Throughout my years I have only known movement in one direction, best guys to PSF.

Ouch! As Chf Clk I used to staff the non PFA posts with volunteers - many of the troops saw the (for example) Sqn posts as far less demanding and more rewarding than the PSF slog.

 

[SgtScribbly]

Ouch! As Chf Clk I used to staff the non PFA posts with volunteers - many of the troops saw the (for example) Sqn posts as far less demanding and more rewarding than the PSF slog.

its definately a "slog" in PSF thats for sure, and seems like very much a chicken factory mentality has set in these days.

The reality is that Sqn clerks now have a far wider range of PFA skills than any "pidgeon-holed" PSF clerk. I would far rather have an ex sqn clerk than an ex PSF clerk working for me due to the fact they can do everything and not just Appraisals thing or Discharges, or PDs. Rotating them would have to happen too often for it to keep their hand in. Same could be said for the Cpls and to a lesser extent the Sgts.

The Sqn clerks may do it for a lot less people, but they do it all - and generally to a higher standard. I would even go as far as saying that this now makes their posts more demanding than a PSF job where there is plenty of lateral cover to make up for the ability of some less able clerks.

Makes you wonder what they used to do in Sqn Admin offices before the PFA task was devolved to them though!

 

[muttywhitedog]

The Sqn clerks may do it for a lot less people, but they do it all - and generally to a higher standard. I would even go as far as saying that this now makes their posts more demanding than a PSF job where there is plenty of lateral cover to make up for the ability of some less able clerks.

Seconded. In this day and age, the Sqn clk is the more rounded imho, as they do it all, and offer a much more personal service - we live with, work with, deploy with and socialise with our customers all the year round, whilst the clk in PSF may only see their customer once or twice a year.

Makes you wonder what they used to do in Sqn Admin offices before the PFA task was devolved to them though!

Cant speak for everyone else, but when I wasnt helping my guys out, or raising 6000s (yes we did those @ Marham in 2002!), or the never-ending OOA preps for the Gulf, I got myself totally immersed in the Mission Support side of Sqn life, helping the GLO and Sqn IntO to produce challenging scenarios for the aircrew to keep them on their toes. I also did a hell of a lot with the S&C. Sadly both these areas have now had to be sacrificed to enable us just to keep up with what the former PSF have thrown our way.