Law question

[Soon To Leave]

Cheers mate. Not been actually accused of anything right now and been called in to speak to MOD police (there are no RAF Police at my unit) today to 'give your side of things' about something, with a view to prosecution.

Have spoken to a couple of people regarding the original offence and am fine with my own course of action there, was just curious about other possible action in future, especially considering I am guilty.

I certainly wouldn't accept any guilt until I was absolutely sure of the offence I was accused of and/or which I was to be charged. At the end of the day it is for them to prove guilt, therefore only mention evidence in your defence or that provides mitigation without incriminating yourself. Do not mention anything of this to P1 until you have been formally charged or cautioned as you may imply guilt and result in RAF action even if you get off with the arrestable offence. The phrase "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't seem to be recognised by the military so take care.

DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Dave-exfairy]

Well that was fun.

Attended my voluntary interview just now.

Once we'd got the usual stuff out of the way and they had explained what they were investigating, I told them I wasn't answering any questions and handed them a piece of paper detailing my side of things. Once the copper had read it aloud I requested the interview be ended.

It's now up to the CPS if they want to prosecute me for covering up a fire sensor in my room with a sock.

Well I suppose that by covering up the sensor with a sock you have broken H&S law, but someone must have a boring life if they have involved the police with this one.
Also, why would you want to cover up the sensor in your room?

 

[Talk Wrench]

Jeeeesus............is someone in the MoD pol trying to make a name for themselves?

Also, what happened to common sense? What's wrong with a stern one way conversation and a "don't do it again, we'll be watching you" type b0llocking?

Sounds as though MoD Plod have too much time on their hands.


Although you were a bit daft to do what you have admitted to, this all seems a little over the top.

2 questions, how was the "sock" in question discovered? And was it your lovesock?

Good luck on this one, I hope common sense shines through.

 

[airspacegeek]

Without a shadow of a doubt exercise your right to free legal advice at the police station. There are certain circumstances in which a no comment interview can be exercised with no adverse effects on your chances should the case end up at trial. These are limited, you need a solicitor to advise on this point. The brief will get confidential disclosure from the police in relation to what evidence they have against you and then a confidential chat with you effectively giving you the heads up before you go on tape. The brief will also afford you protection from repetitive irrelevant or oppressive questioning. The police often try their luck.

In relation to your original question, you are under a duty to report the conviction/caution.

The conviction can result in the RAF taking separate action. The caution although involving an element of culpability does not constitute a conviction and they should not therefore take further action in those circumstances. If you have a clean sheet and depending on the nature of the offence/strength of the evidence co-operation with the police (still with a lawyer) might be the way forward. Coughing the offence together with remorse is the only way to get a caution. This as mentioned will entirely depend on the seriousness/your record.

Are you on a base, if so, you will probably be done under s.36 AFA Breaching SSO's.

Good luck, send me a msg if you want anymore advice.

 

[Justacabbie]

Last person I knew who was using a sock on his fire detector was doing so because he was smoking pot in his room. He didn't get caught for his sock antice but he did get busted for his drug taking!

I hope this isn't the case for you, nor would I expect you to answer that on here. There aren't many other reasons you would want to cover your detector though, other than smoking in your room, which is also a big no no!

As airspacegeek said, A solicitor will advise you correctly. If it looks like its going to get serious then do not bumble along thinking it'll be ok. Trust me, just when you think things are going OK it has a habit of biting your a$$. Get the correct representation!

 

[Vee2]

Well I suppose that by covering up the sensor with a sock you have broken H&S law, but someone must have a boring life if they have involved the police with this one.
Also, why would you want to cover up the sensor in your room?

Yeah it's health and safety. I was informed today that it's the Defence Fire guys that are pushing for prosecution. Apparently people setting off fire extinguishers when drunk etc are also going to be prosecuted. The coppers also told me that somewhere there is a chap being court martialled for removing his sensor and snipping the wires.

The sensor was covered because I was an idiot and thought I'd have some candles going. Candles have caused sensors to go off before. That's no defence though, I know that.

Jeeeesus............is someone in the MoD pol trying to make a name for themselves?

They seemed a bit nonplussed about it and it's not something they usually do, but they were told to do an investigation.

Also, what happened to common sense? What's wrong with a stern one way conversation and a "don't do it again, we'll be watching you" type b0llocking?

I have to admit I expected something a bit different. The incident happened over two weeks ago and the call from the fuzz yesterday was the first official thing I'd heard except for a brief chat from the admin warrant to tell me an investigation was ongoing.

Sounds as though MoD Plod have too much time on their hands.

I have to say good things about the two Mod plod who dealt with me, they were polite and did what they had to do without being arsey or anything.

Although you were a bit daft to do what you have admitted to, this all seems a little over the top.

2 questions, how was the "sock" in question discovered? And was it your lovesock?

1. an alarm sounded and when my room was checked for a fire it was seen.
2. No way, the lovesock stays next to the PC at ALL times.

 

[Talk Wrench]

I hope this isn't the case for you, nor would I expect you to answer that on here. There aren't many other reasons you would want to cover your detector though, other than smoking in your room, which is also a big no no!

Some of the said devices have a really annoying LED indicator that blinks every second or so. It's entirely possible that this can disrupt a persons ability to get to sleep.

Just a thought,

TW

 

[grumpyoldb]

2. No way, the lovesock stays next to the PC at ALL times.

You should have told them it was your love sock, and it flew off, accidentally like......! DT_Xtremez_14:

Good luck with it.

 

[Vee2]

Last person I knew who was using a sock on his fire detector was doing so because he was smoking pot in his room. He didn't get caught for his sock antice but he did get busted for his drug taking!

I hope this isn't the case for you, nor would I expect you to answer that on here. There aren't many other reasons you would want to cover your detector though, other than smoking in your room, which is also a big no no!

As airspacegeek said, A solicitor will advise you correctly. If it looks like its going to get serious then do not bumble along thinking it'll be ok. Trust me, just when you think things are going OK it has a habit of biting your a$$. Get the correct representation!

The next stage will be solicitor time for me. I've told them what I wanted to say in this voluntary interview and now I'm waiting for the CPS to decide what comes next. If I get a summons I'll be straight round to find a solicitor. It could get nasty depending on a couple of other factors I cant mention on here.

 

[Vee2]

Some of the said devices have a really annoying LED indicator that blinks every second or so. It's entirely possible that this can disrupt a persons ability to get to sleep.

Just a thought,

TW

My sensors have TWO such really annoying LEDs. :raf:

 

[Vee2]

You should have told them it was your love sock, and it flew off, accidentally like......! DT_Xtremez_14:

DT_Xtremez_14:DT_Xtremez_14:DT_Xtremez_14:

Good luck with it.

Cheers mate.

 

[4everAD]

Well that was fun.

Attended my voluntary interview just now.

Once we'd got the usual stuff out of the way and they had explained what they were investigating, I told them I wasn't answering any questions and handed them a piece of paper detailing my side of things. Once the copper had read it aloud I requested the interview be ended.

It's now up to the CPS if they want to prosecute me for covering up a fire sensor in my room with a sock.

Well hopefully the CPS have got slightly better things to do with their time than discuss your socks in courtDT_Xtremez_34:

 

[Talk Wrench]

They seemed a bit nonplussed about it and it's not something they usually do, but they were told to do an investigation.

Who "told" them?

Is it possible that someone in DFS is being just a little too grumpy?

The good thing here is that you said that the MoD plod are nonplussed about it. If they are nonplussed about it, then everybody else should be.

Off TopicOff Topic

I was in Beverly block at Lyneham when the fire alarms sounded. (I was NCO ic block top floor) An SAC from "A" line ran down the stairs and told me it was his toaster that had set the alarm off. I told him to feck off out of the block for an hour and I called the fire section who sent an appliance round. I told them what had happened and it was ME who got the b0ll0cking for allowing toasters in the block!! Still, I am of the mentality whereby you stick up for and take the flak for the lads. Said SAC bought a few beers for me later on!!


TW

 

[Justacabbie]

Some of the said devices have a really annoying LED indicator that blinks every second or so. It's entirely possible that this can disrupt a persons ability to get to sleep.

Just a thought,

TW

Fair one, didn't think of that!

 

[br9mp81]

Who "told" them?

Is it possible that someone in DFS is being just a little too grumpy?

The good thing here is that you said that the MoD plod are nonplussed about it. If they are nonplussed about it, then everybody else should be.

Off TopicOff Topic

I was in Beverly block at Lyneham when the fire alarms sounded. (I was NCO ic block top floor) An SAC from "A" line ran down the stairs and told me it was his toaster that had set the alarm off. I told him to feck off out of the block for an hour and I called the fire section who sent an appliance round. I told them what had happened and it was ME who got the b0ll0cking for allowing toasters in the block!! Still, I am of the mentality whereby you stick up for and take the flak for the lads. Said SAC bought a few beers for me later on!!


TW

i'm DFRS and at one of the places i worked at we keep getting toast calls at silly 0'clock but as she was (a) a medic and (b)very nice and not wearing much at that time of day,it was let slip.
When it was mentioned to the QM the answer was it's their room they pay rent,plus i take it in the days of save as you starve there must be some allowance for a cooking area in SSLA.
However please remember that the smoke alarms are there for a reason and servicemen have beeen killed in block fires on ops and in the uk if you set the things off by accident tell us as soon as we get there, in the end it will be tracked down to your room and at the end of the day the quicker we can get you back in the block and us back to station the better as for messing with the fire systems lets put it this way i went to a "well alight" job on a camp and found parts of the smoke detecter system on the stairs when the smoke cleared .
somebody was very lucky to get out that night.

 

[Dave-exfairy]

Why were they looking in your room to start with? When a fire alarm goes off an indication is given on the fire alarm panel as to which sensor has activated, so i'd question the right to be in your room, if it wasn't your sensor which had activated.
I know how sensitive they are, I turned over my mattress and banged it down, it set the sensor and alarm off and evacuated the block, the water fairies weren't happy!
Why they can't just bollock you is beyond me, yes you were daft, but not criminally so, not like the idiot who took his sensor off and intefered with the wiring.

 

[Vee2]

Update from me.

The day after I got back from OOA, I was served with a court summons.

I go to court tomorrow.

 

[Sammy]

:raf: Well good luck, hope it all goes OK.

Are you going to a civvy court?

Let us know what happens.

 

[ChrisBrit81]

It's a feckin minefield, I got arrested (wrongly I might add), got interviewed in the Plod House, spent most of the night in the cells then was released in the early hours with no actions taken against me, no "caution" no "warning" and definitely no "charges", poor Sgt on the booking in desk even said sorry to me.

I made my way straight to the RAFP Ops Shift Sgt and told him everything that had happened, his advice was that NO FURTHER ACTION was required from me as I had done nothing wrong, not been charged, summoned etc etc...

Went to work that morning and my colleagues found it all hilarious, my Cpl, Sgt and Boss included.

3 months later and I got a call from the PA to Stn Cdr, "Harry Staish wants a word, and don't forget your hat". He proceded to rip me a new one for "not informing the heirarchy" of the fact that I'd been arrested, charges or no charges. Apparently he'd been in a meeting with some local officials, including head honcho of the Plod in the area and my name had come up, which put the Staish in a fluster with nothing to say and he was embarrassed in front of said other officials.

He held a personal grudge against me and it wasn't until 7 years later when I came off the promotion board that I found out he had put something in my Permanent Record about the incident and my Promotion was delayed by a month whilst my Admin staff "investigated" the whole affair.

 

[Vee2]

:raf: Well good luck, hope it all goes OK.

Are you going to a civvy court?

Let us know what happens.

Yeah civvy court. I'm still a bit surprised it's actually happening, and that I am actually going to court for this.

When I got the summons the MOD Plod gave me copies of two statements and also a copy of a fire officer's report detailing certain findings and evidence. As i have already admitted here (and to my own chain of command), I did what I did and I accept that. I do dispute some things in some of the evidence, but that's for my solicitor to sort out tomorrow.

I will say this - my own chain of command have been bloody brilliant.