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Mobile CCTV Vans

Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
Can you help settle an argument?

A colleague of mine, who is also a biker, maintains that a mobile CCTV van, with just a pole mounted camera, parked outside a shop in a village, can't do you for speeding. I maintain that it can. Who's right?
 

foxOneFive

Corporal
380
29
28
If I was a guessing man I'd say he probably can. Just like the copper with one of them tripods who done me in the village the other day, 35 in a 30 sending me off for the amazing "speed course" They don't need High viz on in a "30mph" I'm not proud of it, and was in car. (letter in post two weeks later)
No excuse, but bikes are so Fuggin quick these days, it's hard to go slow! Bought a MT-07, so slowed down a bit?
 

Ronsuddes

SAC
174
2
18
If I was a guessing man I'd say he probably can. Just like the copper with one of them tripods who done me in the village the other day, 35 in a 30 sending me off for the amazing "speed course" They don't need High viz on in a "30mph" I'm not proud of it, and was in car. (letter in post two weeks later)
No excuse, but bikes are so Fuggin quick these days, it's hard to go slow! Bought a MT-07, so slowed down a bit?

A child hit at 30mph usually lives, but a child hit at 35mph usually dies.
 

Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
This is the problem. The chap said that as the van in question didnt have anyone with a speed gun, was parked on a side road outside a shop and was by a roundabout where traffic was slowing down anyway, he argues that it's not serving any purpose as a speed camera....
 

Ronsuddes

SAC
174
2
18
This is the problem. The chap said that as the van in question didnt have anyone with a speed gun, was parked on a side road outside a shop and was by a roundabout where traffic was slowing down anyway, he argues that it's not serving any purpose as a speed camera....


In about 1990 the Home Office withdrew its approval for hand-held speed guns - recalled all guns from Police Forces and destroyed them. There may now be guns with approval as my Home Office Department was bought by NTL in 1994.

If anyone is caught by a Police Speedgun it may be worth checking if the gun has Home Office Approval and a valid Calibration Certificate. If you create doubt especially potential embarrassment for the Police you may hear nothing further. The Policeman should show you the reading. In Scotland it would be Scottish Office Approval and in Scotland there must be two policemen operating the gun.

If the Police stop you at a camera and warn that you are being reported for speeding they can process you anytime, but if you only receive a letter it must be within 14 days unless there are special reasons ie you have moved house etc. The advice was valid in the '90s and probably still is.
 

Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
So given the circumstances can a mobile CCTV Van, with a roof mounted TV camera only, do you for speeding. If I'm wrong, it blows a hole in my argument as I'm sure I got caught by one 4 years ago.

My colleague maintains they have no method of gauging your speed if they aren't in the line of site of traffic.
 
Last edited:

Mug?

Flight Sergeant
1,347
2
38
markers

markers

If they can measure your time between two points, they may be able to "do " you.
I got done by a copper in a layby with a timing device and the naked eye from nearly a KM.
This was about 18 yrs ago though. I tried all the: needs 2 witnesses, calibrated fingers? dirt on your windscreen, finger response time, but no difference.
If they have it on tape/ disk I guess they could even do you after the event!
Chances are they are just checking TAX
 

Mag2grid

Corporal
425
0
0
In about 1990 the Home Office withdrew its approval for hand-held speed guns - recalled all guns from Police Forces and destroyed them. There may now be guns with approval as my Home Office Department was bought by NTL in 1994.

If anyone is caught by a Police Speedgun it may be worth checking if the gun has Home Office Approval and a valid Calibration Certificate. If you create doubt especially potential embarrassment for the Police you may hear nothing further. The Policeman should show you the reading. In Scotland it would be Scottish Office Approval and in Scotland there must be two policemen operating the gun.

If the Police stop you at a camera and warn that you are being reported for speeding they can process you anytime, but if you only receive a letter it must be within 14 days unless there are special reasons ie you have moved house etc. The advice was valid in the '90s and probably still is.

As part of the training delivered we were told to show the driver the speed, distance, last calibration date and next due calibration date (sticker issued by the manufacturer on the side of the device) and state "this is the [insert name of device], a Home Office approved speed detection device, which I am trained and authorised to use" at the roadside.

Different Forces use different equipment but all do need to be Home Office approved

Only ones likely to be using them are Roads Policing Teams or Road Safety Partnerships, and we're not using a converted hairdryer off eBay!

Your terminology is a little off, we don't warn we inform people they will be reported for the offence when it comes to speeding, a warning is a disposal option (think informal warning here). If a warning is issued then that's the matter done and dusted, such as a S.59 Warning.

Ref the 14 days - doesn't apply if you are stopped at the roadside by us and informed you will be reported for the offence, you are referring to static GATSO type cameras or vans. It's known as an NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution), gives you 14 days as the owner of the vehicle to identify the driver and accept the offer of a fixed penalty or training course.

Also your advice to see the calibration cert - careful with that advice, you won't cause embarrassment but to see the calibration cert you will need to refuse the offer of a conditional fixed penalty notice and opt for court hearing, we're not required or obliged to produce any evidence at the time of reporting for the offence, we show the calibration sticker as good practice for this type of offence.

i had some refuse last year, went to Magistrates Court, found guilty, appealed to Crown Court, still found guilty. 8 points and £1200 later (costs and victim surcharge included) he gave up, 37 in a 30, outside a school.
 

FOGHORN LEGHORN

Sergeant
905
0
0
Thanks for that Mag2grid. As far as I'm concerned if you are speeding then that's the end of it. No excuse for it at all. End of.

Unbelievable when people say 'I was only doing *insert any speed in excess of the limit' - so you were speeding... Best way to avoid points, fines, or any form of punishment is to abide by the law. That goes for life in general funnily enough...


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Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
Thanks for that Mag2grid. As far as I'm concerned if you are speeding then that's the end of it. No excuse for it at all. End of.

Unbelievable when people say 'I was only doing *insert any speed in excess of the limit' - so you were speeding... Best way to avoid points, fines, or any form of punishment is to abide by the law. That goes for life in general funnily enough...


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With the greatest respect to you are you saying that you have never sped? Ever? You have never even gone 1 mph over the speed limit? Because if that is the case it suggests that you are spending more time focussing on the speedometer and not on the road ahead....
 

FOGHORN LEGHORN

Sergeant
905
0
0
Well I feel you are missing the point but here goes. My point is if you are caught speeding you are bang to rights. No excuses. I have in the past had a speeding fine and completed a course. I have changed my driving style considerably over the last few years (I will admit to being a naive and stupid driver in my youth) and can 100% say I never speed. I slow before the sign and don't accelerate until after. I now also enjoy driving a lot more as a result and do not get as wound up as I used to. It's made me notice how many bad drivers there are on the road and how dangerous it is. Most of the idiots achieve nothing more than catching up with traffic as I often end up behind someone who flew past 1/2 hr before...


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Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
Well I feel you are missing the point but here goes. My point is if you are caught speeding you are bang to rights. No excuses. I have in the past had a speeding fine and completed a course. I have changed my driving style considerably over the last few years (I will admit to being a naive and stupid driver in my youth) and can 100% say I never speed. I slow before the sign and don't accelerate until after. I now also enjoy driving a lot more as a result and do not get as wound up as I used to. It's made me notice how many bad drivers there are on the road and how dangerous it is. Most of the idiots achieve nothing more than catching up with traffic as I often end up behind someone who flew past 1/2 hr before...


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I do get your point - as a result of a similar experience I had a speed awareness course after being caught doing 37 in a 30 zone in Preston; the course changed my style of driving. However, that change didn't translate across to the motor bike and I got caught again and this time got the penalty points. I offer no excuses - I was doing 36 in a 30 and saw little point in challenging it. But even now I still drive and ride a little (1-3mph) over the speed limit.

However, it is the way I was caught which has started this debate at work. A colleague happened to mention that parked in the village near here is a white van with a telescopic mast camera mounted on it and the words "Mobile CCTV Unit" written down the side. I happened to mention that I suspected that one of these was what captured me speeding on the bike - my colleague challenged this as in his experience these particular vehicles are used for monitoring anti-social behaviour or checking movements of people.

Hence the post - can these vehicles, with mast mounted cameras on top of the vehicle only, be used as speed cameras?
 

FOGHORN LEGHORN

Sergeant
905
0
0
If you are speeding and something records this then as far as I'm concerned you should get a fine etc. I don't know the ins and outs of it though. Quite what you gain from traveling through a 30 which in all likelihood has children, elderly etc by 1 or 3 miles faster I don't know??? It's proven that travelling even a little over the limit can significantly increase injury in the event of an accident. As you will have seen on your course.


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Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
If you are speeding and something records this then as far as I'm concerned you should get a fine etc. I don't know the ins and outs of it though. Quite what you gain from traveling through a 30 which in all likelihood has children, elderly etc by 1 or 3 miles faster I don't know??? It's proven that travelling even a little over the limit can significantly increase injury in the event of an accident. As you will have seen on your course.


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I'm not gaining anything and I don't set out to intentionally go over the speed limit - but I maintain that it is physically impossible to drive a car not fitted with cruise control at bang on 30mph for any length of time and with the greatest respect to you, I would suggest that anyone that says they stick rigidly to the speed limit is either the worlds greatest driver or is focussing too much on the speedometer and not on the road - thus posing the same risk to children and elderly as someone doing 1-3mph faster.
 

FOGHORN LEGHORN

Sergeant
905
0
0
As I said. I do stick to the speed limit or below. I do so using cruise control, even in the 20 zones. I'm not the worlds greatest driver but thanks for your greatest respect. I am a safe driver though. It's just as easy to stay under the 'limit' by a couple of mph than over it btw...


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Kryten

Warrant Officer
4,266
206
63
As I said. I do stick to the speed limit or below. I do so using cruise control, even in the 20 zones. I'm not the worlds greatest driver but thanks for your greatest respect. I am a safe driver though. It's just as easy to stay under the 'limit' by a couple of mph than over it btw...


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Fogster, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this - you have cruise control so you can set an upper limit and know you will never exceed it, whereas I have an antiquated VW that doesn't have it fitted so I have to rely on engine pitch and tone to determine how fast I am going.....
 

FOGHORN LEGHORN

Sergeant
905
0
0
I follow plenty of old cars on the road which absolutely do not have cruise control and yet stay safely below the limit. I dare say that their need to not worry about the odd mph here or there means they stay safely heads up. People being in a hurry, mostly self induced, are the issue. That and people who overestimate their driving abilities. Be that the mum in her Picasso steaming through traffic to get to the school gates on time, or the bmw/Audi driver who owns the road (in his head) - excuse the stereotypes but I see them all the time. Especially now that I've slowed down...


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