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General Slim

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Rumours are begiining to float to the surface that work is being carried out at a secret Midlands airbase that a study group has been formed. Its basis or remit to bring the scopies, Air Carts and us FOAs together as one, girls and boys your thoughts please............................
 
The trouble with any merging of trades is that there are some that loose, and some that gain. In this case one thing that occurs to me is the money...Would that mean that the new trade goes to the lower band, (as the FOAs are) or go to the upper band? (ASOp) Just look at the TG3/4 peanut thing going on at the moment...Untill there are people trained and streamed in this new TG there will be jealousy and bitterness across the board, at least till us oldn's move on.

In THEORY I can't see a real problem...As long as they could make sure that people were streamed correctly (ATC,FC etc) then, why not?
 
POB said:
The trouble with any merging of trades is that there are some that loose, and some that gain. In this case one thing that occurs to me is the money...Would that mean that the new trade goes to the lower band, (as the FOAs are) or go to the upper band? (ASOp) Just look at the TG3/4 peanut thing going on at the moment...Untill there are people trained and streamed in this new TG there will be jealousy and bitterness across the board, at least till us oldn's move on.

In THEORY I can't see a real problem...As long as they could make sure that people were streamed correctly (ATC,FC etc) then, why not?
Click to expand...

Just to update your info, most ASOp ranks dropped to the lower band with the coming of Pay 2000. It was only the Sgts who managed to convince whoever did the regrading enough to stay on the high pay band.
 
Looks like this one might happen, there is obvious problems and it has been investigated before several times. However, with an Air Commode in the driving seat and the possibility of forming a "Air Battle Management" branch from FC/ATC and Flt Ops then watch this space. Wont happen quickly though, rumour I have heard is within 10 years
 
Cottie said:
Just to update your info, most ASOp ranks dropped to the lower band with the coming of Pay 2000. It was only the Sgts who managed to convince whoever did the regrading enough to stay on the high pay band.[/quote]

Identification Officer was the clincher for Sgts, WO's go up to high next year after the introduction of Surveillance Director for them.
Click to expand...
 
Its not as if it hasn't been muted for a while now though is it? I have a nasty feeling in my water though of the impending 'bun fight' for which trade will try to become the dominant one in the group. Scopies or ATC? with the Flight Ops and Air Cartogs left to whither on the vine. You only need to look at the current Ops Spt branch to see that ATC and the Scopies are already vieing for the plumb jobs, where as The Flt Ops branch is not getting the jobs that it was created to do. Not that the present Zob drafter is a Scopie of course..............(apparently)
 
I have heard some rumours about this alleged amalgamation floating around the grapevine.

The last I heard was that the TG warrant officers had been in meetings to thrash out the shape of things to come and the results were being pushed up to the rupert level.
 
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I think the TG12 dudes have more to gain from this. I don't see any + factors for TG9 unless you like Northolt. I have witnessed some aggressive job jumping on the commisioned side of TG12. I think we as a trade do undersell ourselves, particularly when you consider some of the non trade tasks that we have found ourselves doing.
 
hmmm, you can actually see the cogs turning here, with TG9 being massively undermanned(womanned) it would certainly make the figures slightly better. surely the fast trrackers wouldnt come under this new trade? so it would basically be an amalgamation of foa's, air carts and scopies! might give the scopies a chance to do something different and widen their posting areas of course.
Off Topic I remember during fresco, a young FOA asked a scopie cpl what the difference between the jobs were and she replied, ' well, i can do your job, but you cant do mine!' how i laughed(and even more now, that i have to deal with them on a daily basis)
 
The FOMz said:
I hoped you slapped her.
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no, being the gentleman that i am i pointed out the error off her ways, then told the FOA the truth of the matter!
actually, when she said it i dont think she realised that i was an foa
 
And you didn't shag her? - I'm disgusted in you.

Back on topic now guys if you please.
 
SSH, surely DE controllers are the way to go? much like airman aircrew?
I can see afew benefits in the amalgamation, and some drawbacks. for an Foa, it wouldnt be that much of a stretch, as we do many varied jobs in the RAF anyway, but i can see it being a problem for the scopies, not being used to daylight being just one. As for the air cartographers i couldnt really comment as i dont know much about them
 
Thing is the trade will benefit from getting those not suitable for aircrew if they do the same entry tests.

Interesting times ahead
 
I'm not sure DE would work to well anyway.
New entrant offered ATC, could choose SNCO or Zob entry levels. Why deliberately cripple yourself entering at SNCO when you could commission?(bearing in mind none of them have any idea really what they would be getting into).
Plus, Towers full of SNEC's and Zobs who have no-one in who has been in longer than a couple of years? (Especially all those long boring out of hours times, weekend, night shifts etc) Ouch.
Also, consider the fact that these DE's would most likely end up being 1st RO for the guys in the tower, having no idea of the content of their duties. Completely unable to advise the 2nd RO on any aspect of their write ups.
Bag of w@nk in my mind.
It would happen.
 
Not at all, it may be that he is too tall to fly, he may be too short. Wrong eyesight, it could be anything. It is a case of looking outside of the box.

With regard to 1st RO in the tower, use the FOM as 1st RO. Trade specialist and all that.

Just because he is not full of interesting conversation on nights, it does not mean he is a bad person or bad controller. I know loads of controllers now that need personality transplants.

With regard to Qualifications, what does a fast tracker need now? English and Maths? An officer needs a minimum of 5 O levels or whatever they are called this week. So there are some people that can't joined commissioned but can go the SNCO route.
 
IF it happens there will be a lot of the old jealosies and bitterness brought up again, and it will do the new trade no good whatsoever to be seen infighting and bickering.

DE controllers may well be the way to go, but have the reasons for not introducing them at either of the last two trade reviews gone away? Will they go down the DE route this time? I am not convinced they will. The new fast track Sgts are meant to be shielded somewhat from some of the duties that go with the rank, (I am thinking particularly assessment writing, but there are others) but in reality, they seem to be doing all the jobs that would be asked of any other Sgt. I am not saying this is right, just that it is happening. The new trade would have to be introduced after extensive briefing and consultation. Just look at the fast track scheme now, it is something like 5 years old and there are still questions about it coming up now, from people that do not understand its workings.
 
r0jaws said:
I'm not sure DE would work to well anyway.
New entrant offered ATC, could choose SNCO or Zob entry levels. Why deliberately cripple yourself entering at SNCO when you could commission?(bearing in mind none of them have any idea really what they would be getting into).
Plus, Towers full of SNEC's and Zobs who have no-one in who has been in longer than a couple of years? (Especially all those long boring out of hours times, weekend, night shifts etc) Ouch.
Also, consider the fact that these DE's would most likely end up being 1st RO for the guys in the tower, having no idea of the content of their duties. Completely unable to advise the 2nd RO on any aspect of their write ups.
Bag of w@nk in my mind.
It would happen.
Click to expand...

I can see what you are saying, but I am fairly certain that the recruiting centers would have quotas to fill, with fairly competitive entry requirements. They would probably recruit as Officer first and second choice SNCO DE. As you say the punters would not have much clue anyway, and can always be brought in on the "Branch Commission" type route. In fact, there's an idea, how about no more DE Officers, just promote from the SNCO ranks? I don't think "they" would allow a massive vacuum to appear at SNCO level, nor for that matter at Officer level.
 
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