Not about higher pay band hijack...Ok it is!!!

[Nec Aspera Terrent]

Off Topic Are Service nurses allowed membership of the RCN or other unions for legal cover?

Not so much 'allowed' as 'compelled'.

 

[metimmee]

Not so much 'allowed' as 'compelled'.

Good for you, thats one option (as far as I know...) that we do not have.

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

Good for you, thats one option (as far as I know...) that we do not have.

You can still join the ALAE as a serviceman, its not a union as such but does offer legal assistance to its members as far as i'm aware.

 

[Soon To Leave]

According to the 'State of the Nation' brief I received last week, they are in the process of addressing the shortcomings of Pay 2000, including a larger increase in pay (from 2.5% to 5%) when promoted from Cpl to Sgt. They recognise the need to restore our TG1/2 Techie differential but how they'll achieve it, and when, is anyone's guess.

 

[Murdog79]

The amount of OOA should not be taken into account when deciding what payband people go on to.

Reponsibility should be

HR Admins should not be paid the same as Techies. I'm not saying they should be paid less just that techies should be paid more.

We do, after all sign legally binding documents several times a day that could land us in prison for manslaughter if we get it wrong.

We work outside in the Rain wind and snow on long night shifts while our shiney brethren get paid the same as us to sit in an office, working 9 - 5 answer the phone and tell us to call JPAC.

A Chef does'nt get sued for manslaughter if he burns the beans.

If you go out of area you get LSA if you go to the sandpit you get op allowance. That's what its for

Therefore if your going away alot you are getting paid more.

Take into account what some people do on a daily basis and you should be able to develop a fair pay scale.

But if they want to retain techies they need to seriously look at what our civilian counterparts are getting paid as although we are recruiting, our experiance is leaving in droves.

So to all the shineys out there I challenge you to tell me not why you should be on the high payband but why YOU think you deserve the same pay as an Aircraft Technician.

Your answers Please..........................................................

 

[Humble Scribe]

HR Admins should not be paid the same as Techies. I'm not saying they should be paid less just that techies should be paid more.

So we shouldn't be paid the same as techies but we shouldn't get any less? You sure that make sense?

A Chef does'nt get sued for manslaughter if he burns the beans.

What happens if he kills someone through food poisoning? DT_Xtremez_30:

But if they want to retain techies they need to seriously look at what our civilian counterparts are getting paid as although we are recruiting, our experiance is leaving in droves.

I agree that something needs to be done to retain techies and I've suggested specialist pay in another of these tedious threads

So to all the shineys out there I challenge you to tell me not why you should be on the high payband but why YOU think you deserve the same pay as an Aircraft Technician.

Nobody has said that a Shiney deserves the same as an Aircraft Techie (apart from tongue in cheek comments) we don't simple as that however a decision was made by COS Pers (I think) that the ranks of WO - Cpl Pers (Supp) should move to the Higher Pay Band - dry your eyes and play a differnt record!

 

[Captain Gatso]

I decided to have a browse here, as I don't get the chance to look at the Goat very often. However I have to wade in here, on this, yet another thread on the whole techie pay verses the rest of the other trade debate. I agree that things are well overdue for a change on the Techie front but the sad fact is that, ACOS and his cronies will not be interested in changing Techie pay and conditions until a mass exodus happens. We all know that PVR's have gone through the roof recently but it still wont be enough at the moment. I noticed it was a bit of a coincidence that folks have mentioned that admin pay has gone up, while at the same time the RAF has thrown this huge advertising campaign for more admin staff in lads rags and TV. ACOS manning knew he would not be able to recruit these folks until he bumped up the wages. The only way Techie pay and conditions will change, will be when Techie manning levels become criticle, and I really can't see that happening any time soon with the current economic climate out here on civvy street. The unfortunate reality at the moment is that I think Techies are caught between a rock and a hard place. Techies would have to PVR on mass to effect a change, while on the other hand PVR'ing and coming into an unstable civvy job market at the moment is going to make alot of techie folks think twice before they put there John handcock on the dotted line. I think ACOS knows this and is privatly breathing a sigh of releif. It all boils down to being Damed if you and Damed if you don't.

 

[SgtScribbly]

ACOS and his cronies...

ACOS manning knew he would not be able to recruit these folks until he bumped up the wages...

I think ACOS knows this and is privatly breathing a sigh of releif...

jeezussssss, how many more people dont know who makes these decisions?

 

[Shiny_Happy]

jeezussssss, how many more people dont know who makes these decisions?

actually, Gatso was not too far off the mark here. The JSJET put us in the 'Management Discretion' zone, which lies between the 2. COS(Pers) - rather than ACOS Manning - made the decision to bump us up based on manning, retention, OOA etc etc etc. The fact we were in the 'discretion zone' means it is likely we will be there again in 5 years, and could well go back down if the conditions in the trade have settled down (although we would 'mark time' rather than get a pay cut.

 

[SgtScribbly]

yeah I am aware of that, having read the letter in full, unlike so many who have commented on it.

It was the suggestion of cronyism that I was referring to. The fact that by a total freak of coincidence he almost got close to reality should not lead us to believe he knew what he was talking about.

 

[muttywhitedog]

We do, after all sign legally binding documents several times a day that could land us in prison for manslaughter if we get it wrong.

Yawn feckin yawn.

We've already established that no aircraft technician has ever been convicted of manslaughter for any RAF aircraft crash.

So stop using this as a reason for being paid more than anyone else.

 

[gemarriott]

Yawn feckin yawn.

We've already established that no aircraft technician has ever been convicted of manslaughter for any RAF aircraft crash.

So stop using this as a reason for being paid more than anyone else.

Quite so but no shiny has ever spent days weeks or even months wondering why the seat he fitted failed, whether he made a mistake or if the pilot died because he didn't attempt to eject, either but several armourers have! Likewise many of the other tech trades involved in A/c servicing have no doubt had their share of sleepless nights. I wonder when the last time a shiney went into work out of hours because he couldn't remember signing a leave pass or rubber stamping and expense sheet? Iknow I have done it to check something I couldn't remember doing.

I for one am heartily sick of these bitch fests over pay but stop trying to pretend a fcuking clerk carries the same weight of responsibility on their shoulders that an aircraft techie does.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I'm not trying to justify it, merely asking for something other than a hypothetical situation as justification why my pay should not go up.

I work with 150 teccies on a daily basis and am astounded at what they do and achieve. In fact, I am also astounded that they do it for such a pittance when they could easily increase their salary by 50% just by leaving this organisation.

Conversely, they see me and my JNCO busting a gut to make sure they get the best possible admin support. None of this "Look in the JSP for yourself" bollox on 1(F) Sqn. We look after our engineers, and funnily enough, they look after us. Its called TEAMWORK.

None of my teccies has openly griped about my impending pay rise - comments range from "Get the beers in" to "Hardly surprising, considering the sh!t that is JPA that you've had to guide us all through". But then again they are mature enough to realise that whatever I get paid will not affect what they get paid, unlike some of the posters on here.

 

[R_Squared]

Is this thread still going?

FFS, the rest have been closed for being less boring than this.

Not that it matters, close this thread and someone will post another one in a couple of weeks.

It's happened, no one but the shineys are particularly happy about it, can we move on?

 

[AVSNCO]

It's people like you that just roll over and take it up the a**e that will be the down fall of the RAF. Of course people are pi**ed at TG17 being put on the high pay band, it's an insult to every other trade in the Air Force. I couldn't think of any other trade that is less worthy of being on the high band.

I left a while ago and it was the right choice, had I not made that descision then then this would have certainly made me PVR at whatever point of my career. I feel that this will further the exodus out of a crumbling Air Force.

 

[R_Squared]

This thread is just repeating what has already been done to death, the same old sh1te being posted again and again, that's what I was talking about.

As to 'people like me' being the downfall of the RAF, what exactly would you like anyone to do about it now?

The decision has been made by the chain of command, should we all have a down tools in protest? If you feel so strongly about it why don't you do something about it, how about writing to your MP? DT_Xtremez_25:

TG17's pay being an insult to every other TG? I'm on the higher rate, I don't feel insulted. Surprised, but not insulted.

As to using it as an excuse to PVR? Get a grip, there are much better reasons than someone else's pay to bang out.

Also as you are no longer with us, is it not possible that there has been a change to the TG17 you used to believe as being the 'least worthy' that may justify this pay increase? Someone, further up the food chain, and actually up to date with what is going on 'at this moment', obviously does.

 

[JonnyB]

Quite so but no shiny has ever spent days weeks or even months wondering why the seat he fitted failed, whether he made a mistake or if the pilot died because he didn't attempt to eject, either but several armourers have! Likewise many of the other tech trades involved in A/c servicing have no doubt had their share of sleepless nights. I wonder when the last time a shiney went into work out of hours because he couldn't remember signing a leave pass or rubber stamping and expense sheet? Iknow I have done it to check something I couldn't remember doing.

I for one am heartily sick of these bitch fests over pay but stop trying to pretend a fcuking clerk carries the same weight of responsibility on their shoulders that an aircraft techie does.

+1 Gem

Having said that I dont have a problem with adminer types being paid on the higher pay band as this probably reflects a reasonable salary for a civvy admin type (once the x-factor is included). However as an aircraft engineer I should be paid the equivalent of my civilian counterpart + 14% x-factor. So doing the same job as all those BAE types who are earning £30K+ I shouldd be on at least £34k, or does the x-factor work in reverse for techies?

 

[AVSNCO]

I wasn't implying that it alone was a justification to PVR, just another nail in the coffin. There were many reasons why I decided to leave, mainly a feeling of being undervalued, now TG 17 are on equal salary I would feel even more undervalued.

You don't feel insulted... then I'm happy for you that you feel that your days work equates to that of admin staff.

What company pays its admin staff the same as it does its engineers?

How can the RAF equate the role and responsibility of its engineers to that of its admin staff?

The difference between the score required to be on high pay band for engineers and admin staff must be huge, from what I have read they only just scrapped through.

I find it difficult to believe that you don't feel insulted about this issue, what qualifications did you need to join, how long was your training, what's your work pattern and environment? What do admin staff do now that JPA has arrived - sit on there backsides in a warm office, closed for lunch, closed for a training afternoon... since JPA everyone in the RAF is admin staff.

Putting TG17 on the high pay band must now make them some of the most highly paid HR staff in the country. I’m sure the AFCO’s will be swamped with applicants – no qualifications required, low aptitude score, short training period, less ranks, no Q courses… need I go on.

TG 1/2 are leaving in droves to find better paid jobs else where. I believe that this will only further the dissatisfaction within the trade. Good luck to everyone that does, I left earlier this year and walked straight into a better paid position where my skills are valued. Talking to my colleagues they were astounded that the Air Force has made this decision, and to quote - 'no wonder people are leaving'

 

[smudgethecat]

What sort of pay are you guys actually on, is it much less thay a civvie licensed enginer earns? i cant believe people such as cooks receive similiar salaries as aircraft engineers receive, if thats indeed the case get licensed and get out

 

[MattBombHead]

Yawn feckin yawn.

We've already established that no aircraft technician has ever been convicted of manslaughter for any RAF aircraft crash.

So stop using this as a reason for being paid more than anyone else.

Tell that to the lads who were initially charged with man slaughter when the rear seat 'fell' out of a certain Tornado last year....

Granted, they weren't convicted, but they were initially charged with Manslaughter. How many shinies have been charged with that then...?DT_Xtremez_25: