Painful...

[Dicky_morris]

I just popped on here to send a message to a friend and thought i would check out the TG4 section as i haven't been on for a while.. all i can say is i have never seen such animosity in all my life.

TG4 is here.. take or leave it.. but what a load of bull**** to read.. if you don't like it.. why don't you leave...

As for the comments about how **** all the new TG4's are coming through.. I'm pretty sure that not all of us are clowns.. being posted on the Wing actually opens your eyes up to how lazy some of the TG3/11 lot are.. who think its now their right to be promoted.. their right to give us stick..

I came in as a 24yr old.. went through Cosford with a range of 29-17 yr olds on my course.. all who have gone down very different career paths since leaving training.. so why the hatred for us...

Do you really hate TG4 that much.. has it really affected your daily job?? I find it nearly as funny as TG3 persons who give TG4 **** but were doing a webmasters role before being on the Wing..

Cant you just give it a break...

 

[PVRisthefuture]

Cant you just give it a break...

No. Now ram it Dicky and get some time in.

It's easy for you to say leave if you don't like it. This might sound strange to you, Dick, but we enlisted to do a job, that was changed to the tripe you call TG4. You don't know how good TG3 was, and you never will, so just keep shining your shoes and telling your TG11 Sgt he's great and you'll be fine, ya baw bag.

 

[unruly1986]

Ah, pvristhefuture. Didn't take you long did it..!

What side of tg3 did you work in and what do you miss?

Have you come into contact or had any experience with DII/F? That will give you something to moan about..!

 

[rugby then work]

Dicky, just remember that the postings on here are often made by the few that feel strongly on a subject. Many ex TG3 are disgruntled by the way the trade has gone and it's their right to air their feelings on the subject.

Anyone who looks at the lads coming out of training with an open mind can see that they are not a bad bunch, there will always be some that are not up to the job, but I've found that most have been more than able to do the job they've been trained for.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

... most have been more than able to do the job they've been trained for.

That is the issue. What are they being trained to do? Certainly not old AD Techy type things, I have more technical knowledege on some kit than our junior technician types and I am an operator (NOT TG11 before someone gets funny!).

I know that Cosford cannot teach everything but it seem as if they are having to teach a little about everything (not their fault).

Not too sure of the answer but I am sure that when I joined there were specially trained individuals to fix what I broke!

 

[mad_collie]

Sorry DM, I cant take your post seriously. It all goes downhill after the first line:

I just popped on here to send a message to a friend

I cant believe you have any friends.DT_Xtremez_31:DT_Xtremez_31:

As for the rest, who's at fault?? Is it the SAC/Cpl level for the crew room bitching, or the seniors for continually employing people in their old fields? Maybe if the bosses started employing the old (and new) boys outside of their comfort zones we might see some improvement. Then maybe the stars would start to come through, and the deadwood could be left at the side to rot away. To survive in TG4 you need to be able to earn the beans on both sides of the fence, not just gob off about it.

 

[mad_collie]

Not too sure of the answer but I am sure that when I joined there were specially trained individuals to fix what I broke!

And they are still around, but they are supervisors now.DT_Xtremez_42:

If the CN4001(?) ever sorts it's life out there should be a hybrid of old school enhanced mech that will be able to change the black boxes in the CRC.

 

[rugby then work]

That is the issue. What are they being trained to do? Certainly not old AD Techy type things, I have more technical knowledege on some kit than our junior technician types and I am an operator (NOT TG11 before someone gets funny!).

There are still equipment specific PG courses that the 'JT types' need to pass (just as their TG3 predecessors had to)

The SAC techs I work with have all taken and passed several PG (or Q) courses and I have to say that they are all more than capable of fixing the equipment they work on including the Radar. Their skills may not be as in depth as when I was JT but with the equipment we have, they don't need to be.

 

[Jenga]

Sorry DM, I cant take your post seriously. It all goes downhill after the first line:



I cant believe you have any friends.DT_Xtremez_31:DT_Xtremez_31:

As for the rest, who's at fault?? Is it the SAC/Cpl level for the crew room bitching, or the seniors for continually employing people in their old fields? Maybe if the bosses started employing the old (and new) boys outside of their comfort zones we might see some improvement. Then maybe the stars would start to come through, and the deadwood could be left at the side to rot away. To survive in TG4 you need to be able to earn the beans on both sides of the fence, not just gob off about it.

We have to earn beans? Well that's me buggered then, I've been after meatballs for the past 19 years! Who knew?!!! DT_Xtremez_42:

Seriously though, even though I still see myself as a L Tech TC (and as we all know, TC's cast a shining light over the Gollem type creatures that were AD's and JAFADs DT_Xtremez_30 I can see that we're stuck with the wondrous creation that is TG4. I see it as a trade problem rather then an issue of a bunch of fuknuckles joining up.

I remember going to a briefing years ago where the blokey with the magic clicker promised us that the TG4 would be a trade of milk and honey, and that we would never, ever have to work on nasty legacy/enduring capability/old kit in the future. So imagine my surprise when I found myself freezing my bits off at the premier mountain site a few years later working on a big turny thing (They called it a RADAR, but I personally think it was a sat dish that had gone a bit U/S). TG4 just keeps on changing, and that's what irritates me really.

I'm starting to ramble (I'm on call so I'm on coffee and horlicks and I'm feeling weird (ok, sober)), so all I'll say is that TG3 and New style TG4 are different animals, there are good and bad in both camps. We're like Americans and Brits...same language, but with different outlooks at times, and we're gonna have threads like this until all of us 3's are out of the mob...yay!

I manned up when I was told that I had to be an Eng Tech EL, and I manned up when I was told that I had to be a TG4. I'm so manly now that I can wear Hai Karate and a Tutu and get away with it. I'll do the job but it doesn't mean that I'm happy with the way that the trade as evolved.

 

[rugby then work]

Seriously though, even though I still see myself as a L Tech TC (and as we all know, TC's cast a shining light over the Gollem type creatures that were AD's and JAFADs DT_Xtremez_30

Off Topic

AD and JAFADs that'll be them twice then DT_Xtremez_14:

I take it you knew better than to claim loop testers were better than AFs.

 

[mad_collie]

We have to earn beans? Well that's me buggered then, I've been after meatballs for the past 19 years! Who knew?!!! DT_Xtremez_42:

You were told Jenga, but as usual you were asleep at the time. Feck all changes.DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

And they are still around, but they are supervisors now.DT_Xtremez_42:

If the CN4001(?) ever sorts it's life out there should be a hybrid of old school enhanced mech that will be able to change the black boxes in the CRC.

The black box changing is not the issue (just basic dumb PCs after all), it is all the other "legacy" kit, that will not be going away anytime soon, that causes the issues. DLB, SSSB, Havequick II, T101/102, the list goes on and on.

I am a firm believer that TG4 is wrong. The Army needed ICT people so they started a trade from scratch and invited all to join - not the farce that we forced on people. When I have a RADAR fault I need a techy, not an ex-peanut or a new fangled ICT Tech.

Never thought I would say this...

Bring back TG3!

 

[Mug?]

really?

really?

Never thought I would say this...

Bring back TG3!

It's still there, all the slots that require ex TG3 are still there and even though all the smoke and mirrors means the P'nuts believe it's one trade there are still 2 sides to the trade, always will be.

whether its ex TG3, or those with the 1932 Q (or whatever it is) and then those with the 4000 Q.
So the bickering will never go away it just menas the wage has been levelled which I think was the whole idea 5 years ago!

PS I know this was a fishing trip but always one to pitch in me!

 

[rugby then work]

Mug, there will be a divide until all the legacy kit has gone (2014 when JMATS happens will go a long way to doing that) but the lads coming out of training have still got to be able to apply themselves to all aspects of the trade. It's up to those of us already here to make sure they have the chance to do that. TG4 may well have beenforced upon us but we need to make it happen so that we don't end up looking like a bunch of mugs.

See what I did at the end there?

 

[Dicky_morris]

Opps... looks like i've stirred up some **** here...

What about the 4001 course they have introduced then...the first course finished in Nov i think.. meaning they "should" be able to do the same job as the old 1932 techs..

and Mr. Collie.. you must know me soo well.. i don't have any friends DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Opps... looks like i've stirred up some **** here...

What about the 4001 course they have introduced then...the first course finished in Nov i think.. meaning they "should" be able to do the same job as the old 1932 techs..

and Mr. Collie.. you must know me soo well.. i don't have any friends DT_Xtremez_21:

And that is what we call re-invention of the wheel...Some Officers will probably get promoted out of that "new idea". Training people up to the same standard as old style TG3 Techs and all that.

Maybe we should give the SAC's who pass a 4th prop....Just a thought for someone's promotion!!

 

[techie_tubby]

From what i've hard from the guys who have just finished the 4001 course, they don't think they are up to the same standard as the 1932 people but are at a higher standard then the 4000 people. Latest rumours to be banded round at the moment are that once you complete your 4000 course and graduate as an LAC you go straight onto the 4001 course.

 

[Zefan]

From what i've hard from the guys who have just finished the 4001 course, they don't think they are up to the same standard as the 1932 people but are at a higher standard then the 4000 people. Latest rumours to be banded round at the moment are that once you complete your 4000 course and graduate as an LAC you go straight onto the 4001 course.

Loads of chaps I graduated with aren't going anywhere near any kit that'll need that level of understanding to work on, and are therefore not going on to the course.

It does seem however that they are feeding the one's being posted on to techy jobs straight back in to Cosford on the 4001. I've recently graduated and I'm back in March, we'll all be SACs by that time.

 

[Comms_Lad]

Does it really feckin matter??

In every single trade you will have people who really cant be bothered, people who can barely be bothered, people who are bothered, those that are bothered enough, and then the god like group who want promotion.

That is irellevant on whether you were 11, 3 or are 4, whether you were assimilated or not.

Lets face it the main gripe is that we are now on the higher pay band, and the techies dont want the possibility of working in a commcen (dont blame you by the way as there is sod all practically to do in them now).

But for the majority of the ex 11, you will find that like the rest of the RAF we earned that higher pay band, not through technical knowledge (which surprisingly just because we didnt bother getting GCSE's or A levels some of us do actually have) but on the basis of doing 3 or more full time jobs.

There is no point in bitching the way that you are, as nothing will change, if you want to change something you have to start providing REALISTIC ideas and then pass them onto someone who can do something with those ideas.

 

[rugby then work]

Does it really feckin matter??

In every single trade you will have people who really cant be bothered, people who can barely be bothered, people who are bothered, those that are bothered enough, and then the god like group who want promotion.

That is irellevant on whether you were 11, 3 or are 4, whether you were assimilated or not.

Lets face it the main gripe is that we are now on the higher pay band, and the techies dont want the possibility of working in a commcen (dont blame you by the way as there is sod all practically to do in them now).

But for the majority of the ex 11, you will find that like the rest of the RAF we earned that higher pay band, not through technical knowledge (which surprisingly just because we didnt bother getting GCSE's or A levels some of us do actually have) but on the basis of doing 3 or more full time jobs.

There is no point in bitching the way that you are, as nothing will change, if you want to change something you have to start providing REALISTIC ideas and then pass them onto someone who can do something with those ideas.

Who's bitching? This was a fairly tame thread on a volatile subject and I didn't notice anyone bringing up the higher pay subject until now (a fishing trip perhaps).

This a forum for people to express their views, if everyone shut up and only passed those views up the chain of command this would be a very boring place.

Merry Christmas