Promotion after being charged?

[bubblebutt]

Hello everybody,I have a query which I want help with.

Could anyone tell me the likelyhood of someone getting offered promotion (their promotion is on its way to them post board results and members leaving the RAF within the next few months) if they've just been charged in a civilian court and are awaiting what punishement the RAF will impose.

Just asking because i'm next in line and likley to get it offered to me if this person doesnt get it.Feel sorry for the person as it all seems bad luck/timing and I know that person,but this is my only chance of advancement before I leave.It would be a horrible way to get promoted but one I couldn't turn down and I wish I hadn't found out,ignorance is bliss,but I have so now i'm just wondering about my chances.
Please only give correct answers before I look into this further, thanks.
PM me if you know exactly what would happen. Thanks again.cup of corrrfeee

 

[muttywhitedog]

This happened to a lad on my former sqn - he was on the PSL and his JMLC was already confirmed on JPA - then he was caught drink driving.

One of the checks done by Admin prior to the offer being issued by the individual is that there are no outstanding disciplinary issues and that the subject is still fit for promotion since his/her last SJAR was finalised. If they (and this individual's flt cdr) are doing their checks correctly, this will be flagged back up to ACOS and the offer may well be withdrawn depending on the severity of the crime.

 

[Spearmint]

Not sure on the severity of a charge in a Civilian Court once someone has been picked up but I do know a Formal Warning doesn't stop it otherwise one of the most untrustworthy SAC(T)'s to ever grace Her Majesty's Royal Air Force would not have received his two banana.DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[MrMasher]

I know a lad who got his tapes. He'd done TMT but was waiting for JMLC. In that period he got caught drink driving. He got demoted and didn't get another offer.

 

[Bignick]

I know a guy who had his 3rd and had been wearing it for about a year. His IMLC had been confirmed then cancelled a couple of times for service reasons. He then got done drunk driving. He was given a massive fine and formal warning by the RAF and case was closed...he thought. His next IMLC date came some months later and the signal was noticed by a PSF officer who connected that it was the guy who had been done drunk driving some months earlier. His 3rd was removed!!

Don't usually have much sympathy for drunk drivers, but I thought in this case it was very harsh.

 

[busby1971]

I know a guy who had his 3rd and had been wearing it for about a year. His IMLC had been confirmed then cancelled a couple of times for service reasons. He then got done drunk driving. He was given a massive fine and formal warning by the RAF and case was closed...he thought. His next IMLC date came some months later and the signal was noticed by a PSF officer who connected that it was the guy who had been done drunk driving some months earlier. His 3rd was removed!!

Don't usually have much sympathy for drunk drivers, but I thought in this case it was very harsh.

Drink Driving is a very serious offence in the RAF, and the results of drink driving can be very tragic, there's a footballer in the paper today who killed a couple of nippers and only did two years whilst over the limit. Now think about drunk drivers on your married patch, being caught before a serious accident was probably the best thing that can happen to any drunk driver.

Back to the original post, it kinda comes down to the quality of the admin, if they or the boss remember it and put two plus two together then it's up brown creek, or as in the case above it gets missed for some reason and he takes your promotion.

 

[bubblebutt]

Drink Driving is a very serious offence in the RAF, and the results of drink driving can be very tragic, there's a footballer in the paper today who killed a couple of nippers and only did two years whilst over the limit. Now think about drunk drivers on your married patch, being caught before a serious accident was probably the best thing that can happen to any drunk driver.

Back to the original post, it kinda comes down to the quality of the admin, if they or the boss remember it and put two plus two together then it's up brown creek, or as in the case above it gets missed for some reason and he takes your promotion.

Thanks for all the replies.Its an odd position i'm in.I cannot deny I want the promotion (advancement,different job and more pension for when I leave) and that it will be my only chance,however the person just had bad luck and came off the board above me. Now that I know the information i'd be gutted if I didn't get it,but I wouldn't do anything to spoil that persons chances of getting it.Best I just cross everything and hope it arrives for me,unfortunately at the demise of the other person tho.

 

[grumpyoldb]

I wouldn't worry too much about the other guy. It's he who has c0cked up, not you.

 

[ScoobTech]

This happened to someone I knew about 7 yrs ago. And he was told if it made the papers when he went to court, he would lose his promotion. It made the local rag giving name and occupation, next thing promotion taken off him. But the rules might be a bit tighter now.

 

[gemarriott]

Thanks for all the replies.Its an odd position i'm in.I cannot deny I want the promotion (advancement,different job and more pension for when I leave) and that it will be my only chance,however the person just had bad luck and came off the board above me. Now that I know the information i'd be gutted if I didn't get it,but I wouldn't do anything to spoil that persons chances of getting it.Best I just cross everything and hope it arrives for me,unfortunately at the demise of the other person tho.

I suggest you send a PM to ILLBW with all the details on and let him send a poison pen email to the relevant peopleDT_Xtremez_42:

 

[chief remf]

In the bad old days of P1 a civil conviction required a report from the Sqn Cdr and the Staish would approve/not approve a FW from it. Invariably it did mean a FW and a FW would debar promotion and posting for 6 months. A dossier check was required in P1 for all promotions and civil conviction would have been a killer. Since I left and the advent of JPA things may have changed.

 

[bluetonic]

I suggest you send a PM to ILLBW with all the details on and let him send a poison pen email to the relevant peopleDT_Xtremez_42:

Gem - Lovely man.

Bubble, I bet if your admin section is as professional and thorough as ours, they wont know anything about his charge.

 

[gemarriott]

Actually BT it was a joke DT_Xtremez_42:


Seriously this sort of thing is what separates civvy mentality from Service mentality. Most of us wouldn't dream of bubbling the guilty barsteward to line management whereas the average civvy would sell his kids into white slavery for another rung on the ladder.

 

[mememe]

Actually BT it was a joke DT_Xtremez_42:


Seriously this sort of thing is what separates civvy mentality from Service mentality. Most of us wouldn't dream of bubbling the guilty barsteward to line management whereas the average civvy would sell his kids into white slavery for another rung on the ladder.

Got to disagree with you on this one Gem. I don't believe we are far, if at all behind the civvies. Loyalty is very much an over used word in the military, certainly within my branch. Whilst I accept some wouldn't bubble, I think most would to get the step up, they have proved it over and over again during my time. I have watched the blatent attempts to get one over on colleagues so that will make them look good in the eyes of RO's. They champion a no blame culture within my branch, biggest load of rubbish I have witnessed, when something goes wrong they want blood, and don't stop till they get it.
If the guy got done in court is it right to punish him twice?

 

[gemarriott]

Got to disagree with you on this one Gem. I don't believe we are far, if at all behind the civvies. Loyalty is very much an over used word in the military, certainly within my branch. Whilst I accept some wouldn't bubble, I think most would to get the step up, they have proved it over and over again during my time. I have watched the blatent attempts to get one over on colleagues so that will make them look good in the eyes of RO's. They champion a no blame culture within my branch, biggest load of rubbish I have witnessed, when something goes wrong they want blood, and don't stop till they get it.
If the guy got done in court is it right to punish him twice?

I hope that isn't systemic in the RAF. How can you trust people if that is how they act?

 

[RAF Bird]

Got to disagree with you on this one Gem. I don't believe we are far, if at all behind the civvies. Loyalty is very much an over used word in the military, certainly within my branch. Whilst I accept some wouldn't bubble, I think most would to get the step up, they have proved it over and over again during my time. I have watched the blatent attempts to get one over on colleagues so that will make them look good in the eyes of RO's. They champion a no blame culture within my branch, biggest load of rubbish I have witnessed, when something goes wrong they want blood, and don't stop till they get it.
If the guy got done in court is it right to punish him twice?

You do have a very good point here. If some guy gets done for drunk driving say the moning after how can any of us really say that he/she deserves to lose their promotion for that?? They have lost their licence, paid a fine, etc etc should they really lose their promotion as well. I'm sure plenty of you will be telling me I'm wrong and while I dont advocate drink driving at all....... can any of us truthfully swear that we have NEVER EVER driven the next day when there is a possibility of us still being over the limit? But then again WRT the peado that we recently discussed on another part of the goat he defo should have been punished twice, i.e: his civvy punishment and booted out of the RAF!

 

[grumpyoldb]

You do have a very good point here. If some guy gets done for drunk driving say the moning after how can any of us really say that he/she deserves to lose their promotion for that?? They have lost their licence, paid a fine, etc etc should they really lose their promotion as well. I'm sure plenty of you will be telling me I'm wrong and while I dont advocate drink driving at all....... can any of us truthfully swear that we have NEVER EVER driven the next day when there is a possibility of us still being over the limit? But then again WRT the peado that we recently discussed on another part of the goat he defo should have been punished twice, i.e: his civvy punishment and booted out of the RAF!

So it's OK for some crimes, but not for others? How would you feel if someone (heaven forbid) knocked your little boy down on the way to school and was found to have had one pint too many the night before?

A peado deserves to be punished twice? Why?

Yes they are disgusting and should be locked away where they can't do any harm. Can we say the same about drink drivers? Lock them away because next time it may be three pints over instead of one.

 

[RAF Bird]

So it's OK for some crimes, but not for others? How would you feel if someone (heaven forbid) knocked your little boy down on the way to school and was found to have had one pint too many the night before?

A peado deserves to be punished twice? Why?

Yes they are disgusting and should be locked away where they can't do any harm. Can we say the same about drink drivers? Lock them away because next time it may be three pints over instead of one.

Never said I was right, it was just my take on the point that mememe made. Sure your right if someone knocked over my lad on the way to school still over the limit I'd want to kill him/her... in the same way that if he/she knocked him over stone cold sober... I'd want to kill them. But you are missing the point.... it is the RAF that is punishing them twice not me and I thought mememe had a valid point.... cept when it comes to murder/rape/peados they should all be shot!

 

[bubblebutt]

Never said I was right, it was just my take on the point that mememe made. Sure your right if someone knocked over my lad on the way to school still over the limit I'd want to kill him/her... in the same way that if he/she knocked him over stone cold sober... I'd want to kill them. But you are missing the point.... it is the RAF that is punishing them twice not me and I thought mememe had a valid point.... cept when it comes to murder/rape/peados they should all be shot!

I think everyone has valid points. On the point of being 'done' twice, I lost my license for drink/driving when I was a young un' and got done by the civilian courts as well as the military (for bringing the service into disrepute etc..), was it right, yes, we all serve under military as well as civilian law, we knew that when we joined up! Looking at the AP's then the chance of promotion shouldn't be offered to this person. They messed up and it was bad timing. I was just asking about my actual chances of getting it instead of this person. Time will tell I guess!

 

[busby1971]

People who get promoted are role models for those below them and are expected to set the standard (set the standard get the standard and all that). If you cannot respect the behaviours laid down in AP1 then how can you be expected to be taken seriously by your peers and subordinates. Cor' I sound like ILLBW there.

There's plenty of good people out there who don't get promoted and there's barely a fag paper between them, just because somebodies higher up on the promotion list doesn't necesarily mean that they are more worth. If the next person on the list can live his life following the standards and ethos of the RAF then in my opinion he is more deserving.

If the other guy is still waiting to find out whether or not he is guilty or innocent then he should be held in place pending the outcome.

The original OP hasn't mentioned drink driving so we don't know whether or not this was the offence (although there is a lot of it about in the forces) so I don't think we should be fixated on this point, afterall he could be a kiddy fidler for all we know, then where do your sympathies lie, should he still not be punished twice?