Promotion after being charged?

[TDJ]

It all depends on the severity of the civil issue - as he has been cautioned and advised of a court appearance then he should have (iaw QRs) notified his CO in writing. Thereafter, P1 will place a marker on his JPA record/P1 file. If he hasn't reported it then he could be charged.

Depending on the outcome of the Civil case, the type of offence and punishment from the courts depends on the administrative sanction imposed on the individual by the RAF - as Busby rightly states this is iaw AP1 and is not a double punishment.

Have a look at AP3392 Vol 5 lflts 127-130 on what distinguishes between admin action and summary dealing and where the perceived 'grey area' for civil offences comes into this.

I know many will rant saying it is unfair, its a double punishment etc etc however this has been challenged many times and each time the Service has won.

 

[bubblebutt]

It all depends on the severity of the civil issue - as he has been cautioned and advised of a court appearance then he should have (iaw QRs) notified his CO in writing. Thereafter, P1 will place a marker on his JPA record/P1 file. If he hasn't reported it then he could be charged.

Depending on the outcome of the Civil case, the type of offence and punishment from the courts depends on the administrative sanction imposed on the individual by the RAF - as Busby rightly states this is iaw AP1 and is not a double punishment.

Have a look at AP3392 Vol 5 lflts 127-130 on what distinguishes between admin action and summary dealing and where the perceived 'grey area' for civil offences comes into this.

I know many will rant saying it is unfair, its a double punishment etc etc however this has been challenged many times and each time the Service has won.

Thanks to you all. I've looked at the leaflet but couldn't work out fully what would/could happen,think I might go and have a chat with the chief clerk.My hopes are definately and falsely being raised and I fear that my chance will come to nothing.

 

[bubblebutt]

People who get promoted are role models for those below them and are expected to set the standard (set the standard get the standard and all that). If you cannot respect the behaviours laid down in AP1 then how can you be expected to be taken seriously by your peers and subordinates. Cor' I sound like ILLBW there.

There's plenty of good people out there who don't get promoted and there's barely a fag paper between them, just because somebodies higher up on the promotion list doesn't necesarily mean that they are more worth. If the next person on the list can live his life following the standards and ethos of the RAF then in my opinion he is more deserving.

If the other guy is still waiting to find out whether or not he is guilty or innocent then he should be held in place pending the outcome.

The original OP hasn't mentioned drink driving so we don't know whether or not this was the offence (although there is a lot of it about in the forces) so I don't think we should be fixated on this point, afterall he could be a kiddy fidler for all we know, then where do your sympathies lie, should he still not be punished twice?

It was a drink/drive offence,not sure of the exact court conviction but a fine & ban was imposed.

 

[GimpyBoy]

Thanks to you all. I've looked at the leaflet but couldn't work out fully what would/could happen,think I might go and have a chat with the chief clerk.My hopes are definately and falsely being raised and I fear that my chance will come to nothing.

What did your Chief Clerk say?

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Drunk Driving Conviction = Formal Warning. Seen two guys do it while awaiting promotion. Both had posting and promotion cancelled.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

Drunk Driving Conviction = Formal Warning. Seen two guys do it while awaiting promotion. Both had posting and promotion cancelled.

That won`t happen now seeing as the objective is to get everyone posted into Brize. DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[bubblebutt]

Drunk Driving Conviction = Formal Warning. Seen two guys do it while awaiting promotion. Both had posting and promotion cancelled.

I read some literature yesterday which indicated a formal warning is only for 3 months, and only takes you off the PSL for the duration of that FW.It is marked on your dossier that you've had a FW and it remains until 3yrs has lapsed/you've been posted. It affects you and puts you at 'C' candidate in next promotion cycle,which won't stop this promotion being offered this year. Any adminers out there like to correct/confirm this? Thanks.

 

[TDJ]

Largely correct but a PSB seeing a formal warning on the record will automatically Mark you down and therefore you are extremely unlikely to be promoted, it could happen but very doubtful.

Having recently been a PSB president, 2 candidates fell into the same trap, they were both good performers and would have been promoted, but we shaded them down to ensure they were outside the likely cut off mark.

 

[bubblebutt]

Largely correct but a PSB seeing a formal warning on the record will automatically Mark you down and therefore you are extremely unlikely to be promoted, it could happen but very doubtful.

Having recently been a PSB president, 2 candidates fell into the same trap, they were both good performers and would have been promoted, but we shaded them down to ensure they were outside the likely cut off mark.

Board sat earlier this year, promotion coming up possibly this month/next 2-3 months,presuming FW issued this month,would they still be likely to not get offered it this cycle (boards normally sit in January,so next board Jan 12)
Thanks

 

[justintime129]

Board sat earlier this year, promotion coming up possibly this month/next 2-3 months,presuming FW issued this month,would they still be likely to not get offered it this cycle (boards normally sit in January,so next board Jan 12)
Thanks

Reading between the lines you seem to have something against this person. Shouldn't you be worrying about yourself and not worrying if this other person gets promoted or not. Or is this mysterious person really you

 

[bubblebutt]

Reading between the lines you seem to have something against this person. Shouldn't you be worrying about yourself and not worrying if this other person gets promoted or not. Or is this mysterious person really you

Wrong reading! Nothing against this person at all, just hearing conflicting advice, rumours and speculation, and also just trying to find out information based on peoples experiences rather than trying to fathom it out for myself! E-goat can be good for that, it can also be bad for that too!

 

[Climebear]

Have a look at QRJ963 and AP3392 Vol 4 leaflet 1302 which give the policy on those summoned to appear at a civil court. Both of these are available on the intranet.

 

[GimpyBoy]

Wrong reading! Nothing against this person at all, just hearing conflicting advice, rumours and speculation, and also just trying to find out information based on peoples experiences rather than trying to fathom it out for myself! E-goat can be good for that, it can also be bad for that too!

The only advice you should be seeking is from your Career Manager and the Chf Clk, (can't understand why youre trying to fathom it out if you have spoken to them!). If they've given you conflicting advice then ask for clarification. Asking for experiences of other goaters can be fatal as the the real story doesn't always come out and adds to the confusion.

 

[justintime129]

Wrong reading! Nothing against this person at all, just hearing conflicting advice, rumours and speculation, and also just trying to find out information based on peoples experiences rather than trying to fathom it out for myself! E-goat can be good for that, it can also be bad for that too!

Maybe in hindsight you could have done without being told/finding out. Then if you'd have got promoted then that would have been so much sweeter. I know you don't want to wish that he doesn't get promoted but it's only human nature that a part of toy hopes he doesn't get it. Just accept the worse case scenario and get ready for life in civvy street, it's not that bad, in fact it's rather good.

 

[harry the df]

As I understand even after a person has come off the PSB, their chain of command has to confirm there is no discip action pending or occured since the last SJAR that may effect person's ability to be promoted before they are promoted and a FW for convicted drink driving may be such a thing.
Bearing in mind how frowned on drink driving is taken, I can not see many P1s recommending a guy convicted of drink driving be promoted.

I certainly know of at least 1 guy who did would have been promoted if he did not have FW for drink driving.

 

[bubblebutt]

Maybe in hindsight you could have done without being told/finding out. Then if you'd have got promoted then that would have been so much sweeter. I know you don't want to wish that he doesn't get promoted but it's only human nature that a part of toy hopes he doesn't get it. Just accept the worse case scenario and get ready for life in civvy street, it's not that bad, in fact it's rather good.

I agree, thanks.

 

[bubblebutt]

As I understand even after a person has come off the PSB, their chain of command has to confirm there is no discip action pending or occured since the last SJAR that may effect person's ability to be promoted before they are promoted and a FW for convicted drink driving may be such a thing.
Bearing in mind how frowned on drink driving is taken, I can not see many P1s recommending a guy convicted of drink driving be promoted.

I certainly know of at least 1 guy who did would have been promoted if he did not have FW for drink driving.

Thanks for the info, i'll wait out & plan for the worst first! Thanks again.

 

[clungemobile]

As I understand even after a person has come off the PSB, their chain of command has to confirm there is no discip action pending or occured since the last SJAR that may effect person's ability to be promoted before they are promoted and a FW for convicted drink driving may be such a thing.
Bearing in mind how frowned on drink driving is taken, I can not see many P1s recommending a guy convicted of drink driving be promoted.

I certainly know of at least 1 guy who did would have been promoted if he did not have FW for drink driving.

Which is exactly what MWD said on 5 Jun 11!!

 

[bubblebutt]

Which is exactly what MWD said on 5 Jun 11!!

Thanks guys, I didn't re-read the history of this post!

 

[JagCabMan]

Depends who you are ?

Depends who you are ?

A certain Wing Commander acting as Station Commander got well drunk (Wildenrath Late 80's) came out of the mess during the day and driving a service vehicle, side swiped 3 or 4 civilian cars outside of the mess, he was posted overnight, a year or not much more later, we all noticed he was promoted to Group Captain. How does that work then?