Promotion lottery

[Little Tronk]

They are a law unto themselves... A few years ago I was in the same boat... I had 4 years of 6s' and spec recs, excellent write ups, AOC commendation and valedictory letters, high profile secondary duties etc etc..With high recs before that. Anyhow, got so disheartened at people getting promoted with high recs and bog standard write ups thought about leaving as it was a joke to be honest......
Went and spoke to my boss who kept asking why 'I wasn't promoted yet' to discuss leaving. He phoned PMA there and then to ask what was going on..... They said I quote ' because there has been no improvement in Sac ***** assessments. I was not getting picked up.' Now correct me if I am wrong but, how can you improve on 6s and Spec recs??

Luckily I was picked up and was 2nd on the board later that year. But really, how ridiculous!! How can people who have never met you, Know nothing about you except, what is written possibly decide that you are good enough or not for promotion??
I know that they obviously get a write up from your SNCO etc. But, lets face it not everyone is good at writing assessments and miss out those key words needed!!

Why not do in house promotions so, that people that actually do the work, are good at it and have leadership skills get promoted over those who, play RAF golf/football etc and are never in work... Or, the a**hole who, has his/her tongue up their bosses backside but never actually does any work but instead takes other peoples successes or, sh*ts on everyone to get promoted??? We have all met them!

Life would be alot simpler... Plus, we would not have an abundance of Yes men/women who cannot make a decision, lead, say no when needed. In charge of people that could do the job 10x better!!

Just a thought!!

You may be the best in what you do in the section you are in but if you have been here for 4 years then 'you are not being challenged or are pushing yourself' to improve. Altough you may disagree that, I fear is how a reader would see it.

It is all about an improvement curve.

 

[Raddaran]

I was 99 last year and have been in 15 yrs, 6 yrs as a cpl. That was the heavies board which sits July 9th- 21st

 

[olliepop]

You may be the best in what you do in the section you are in but if you have been here for 4 years then 'you are not being challenged or are pushing yourself' to improve. Altough you may disagree that, I fear is how a reader would see it.

It is all about an improvement curve.

I agree but, 2 years of those were after being posted to a different place... Doing a different job... Ahh well its in the past now and I was lucky enough to do well in the lottery!! Unlike some I know who are excellent leaders, man managers and tradesmen to boot who are being overlooked.

I definitely would not say I was the 'best' there were quite a few of us that had good assessments...

 

[Zeebad]

[/QUOTE]I wholeheartedly agree that the SJAR writing/influencing courses should be mandatory, although I would also like to see 2nd RO's becoming more involved - they should know if a 1st RO is weak at writing and should be giving more advice and support instead of becoming a glorified spell checker as I have witnessed in some cases (I know, not all of you out there!)[/QUOTE]

My last 3 assessments have been messed up in one way or another by the 2nd RO's. In this years, it is so badly written I am in the process of putting in a service complaint (did not even get an interview from 2nd RO on my 6th assessment, first time I saw it, it was finalised in my workflow, he had ownership for over 8 weeks). Most of this could be resolved if the subject was allowed to have an input after each input by the RO's.

 

[Spearmint]

Coming from JFH, a number of my assessments were written by very young Petty Officers. Some with about a 3rd of the time I had in, with a basic grasp of our English language and no idea of how our assessments should be written. They wrote them much like they would write a young WAFU up who get picked up on time rather than actually shining amongst their peers.

I remember having to return them a few times to the first RO to correct and reform huge chunks. Thank Christ my Second RO was an old n' bold Chief Tech who routinely agreed with me.

 

[Downsizer]

There is a school of thought, and it is a bitter pill to swallow, that not everybody is as good as they think and that is why they haven't been picked up....

Usually this applies to people who "the system" has done over....

 

[Spearmint]

B

There is a school of thought, and it is a bitter pill to swallow, that not everybody is as good as they think and that is why they haven't been picked up....

Usually this applies to people who "the system" has done over....

Having seen a few examples myself of people being promoted far beyond their abilities and seeing a few revisions of the Premier trade (TG1) over the years meaning the new system effectively being 'forced' to work, I would tend to disagree.

 

[Downsizer]

B

Having seen a few examples myself of people being promoted far beyond their abilities and seeing a few revisions of the Premier trade (TG1) over the years meaning the new system effectively being 'forced' to work, I would tend to disagree.

It wasn't aimed at you in particular, but as a fellow member of TG1 I have seen the same changes and in my experience often the loudest whiners about the promotion system are "legends in their own mind"....

Simple fact is the truth often hurts and people are unwilling to take a long hard honest look at their abilities and performance....

 

[Trusty Adjusty]

Many a time has a 10/11/12 year SAC/JT who is convinced he can't do anymore to get promoted shown me their "awesome" assessment for me to rip it apart in minutes. The cynic in me says some 1st RO's are getting particularly good at making lads think they're onto a winner, at the same time knowing full well the board won't give it a second look DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Spearmint]

It wasn't aimed at you in particular, but as a fellow member of TG1 I have seen the same changes and in my experience often the loudest whiners about the promotion system are "legends in their own mind"....

Simple fact is the truth often hurts and people are unwilling to take a long hard honest look at their abilities and performance....

I wouldn't take offense even if it was aimed at me chap. Truth is I used to sit there and wonder the same as the OP. To continually review my appraisals and request career briefs when appropriate. In the end, feeling like I was just being seen off repeatedly I decided to change tact and develop myself in other ways. Which has paid off.

 

[raflad67]

Many a time has a 10/11/12 year SAC/JT who is convinced he can't do anymore to get promoted shown me their "awesome" assessment for me to rip it apart in minutes. The cynic in me says some 1st RO's are getting particularly good at making lads think they're onto a winner, at the same time knowing full well the board won't give it a second look DT_Xtremez_42:

Sorry to butt in on your thread again but this is so right in my experience. I have lost count the number of times someone comes in very disappointed at not being promoted or even an A grade only for me to point out some 'home truths' about their assessments. Many of these people have had a very good last assessment but the previous ones were not, some having quite negative comments in them too. Some people need to wise up and do as much as they can to help themselves. Heed some of the advice on here and you won't go too far wrong.

Lots of these people expect to win the lottery...but don't even buy a ticket!!

 

[Warwick Hunt]

Coming from JFH, a number of my assessments were written by very young Petty Officers. Some with about a 3rd of the time I had in, with a basic grasp of our English language and no idea of how our assessments should be written. They wrote them much like they would write a young WAFU up who get picked up on time rather than actually shining amongst their peers.

I remember having to return them a few times to the first RO to correct and reform huge chunks. Thank Christ my Second RO was an old n' bold Chief Tech who routinely agreed with me.

The difference in service reporting standards is another huge failing in the SJAR, which is supposed to be a tri-service reporting system. Until there's standardisation in the quality of report writing across the three services, members of the RAF will continue to be disadvantaged due to the fact that RO's from the army and RN don't write on their guys in the dame way that we do. I personally was disadvantaged as an SAC working for a CPOWTR in Gib. At the time, the RN report consisted of one side of an A4 sheet of paper, a little like the old 6442. When my 6000 appeared on my desk, she nearly had a heart attack when she saw how much she had to write! Fair play, I got a 5 High, but each box consisted of roughly one sentence. Despite my protestations, she kept on saying "in the navy, this would get you promoted" and refused to grasp the concept that I WASN'T in the navy and our reporting and boarding standards were a lot higher. Until this balance is redressed, the hard working and worthy airmen and women will suffer come boarding time.

 

[JFOM]

Almost 10 years an SAC, 11 years a Cpl.

Sorry, bitter and twisted has got the better of me! I'm on a unit where all the hierarchy, right up to the Stn Cdr can't understand why I haven't been picked up.

With one more SJAR to go till exit, I've lost faith in the system! It simply doesn't work. How do I console myself? By telling myself that it's the Air Force's loss. Sure beats moping around depressed at having been passed up again.
DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[Real Slim Shady]

Hi,
As an ex Trade Sponsor, and spec member of a Sgt/CT ATM board, can I offer some advice?
Firstly - own your SJAR, if you are not happy with it tell your ROs (but also be honest with yourself as well - if you deserve a mediocre report then accept it). Secondly, in my limited experience, the board will have approx 5 mins to 'read' you hence you need to be sold in simple, clear and loud text. Nothing says as much as 'the best of my 12 SACs' or 'most capable xxx on my shift'. The work that some stns are doing re SJAR writing is v useful, shame that it is not mandated, if you can get on one do it. Hope this helps and I am not trying to be patronising - honest!

 

[Rob]

I like most gave up trying to figure out the promotion game a long time back! We've all seen great lads passed over and pen fifteens get picked up. There is a guy at Marham who joined as an SAC (T) Av, that had his third in 8 years. Never touched an aircraft either.

From what I know, they board really have 20-30 senconds per SJAR, if you aren't sold to them so you leap out of the page and grab their attention, you are passed by.

Still no idea how morons with average assesments get promoted though, if you can't post dead wood, promote it.......

 

[Sospan]

I like most gave up trying to figure out the promotion game a long time back! We've all seen great lads passed over and pen fifteens get picked up. There is a guy at Marham who joined as an SAC (T) Av, that had his third in 8 years. Never touched an aircraft either.
From what I know, they board really have 20-30 senconds per SJAR, if you aren't sold to them so you leap out of the page and grab their attention, you are passed by.

If he is good enough does it matter where he was employed?

You have been misinformed, they have time to read each SJAR, discuss the outcome and record the scores.

 

[PTR Hoar]

I like most gave up trying to figure out the promotion game a long time back! We've all seen great lads passed over and pen fifteens get picked up. There is a guy at Marham who joined as an SAC (T) Av, that had his third in 8 years. Never touched an aircraft either.

From what I know, they board really have 20-30 senconds per SJAR, if you aren't sold to them so you leap out of the page and grab their attention, you are passed by.

Still no idea how morons with average assesments get promoted though, if you can't post dead wood, promote it.......

Do you know this guy? Was he deserving of it? I've never worked on a Sqn and have been 2nd line on/off aircraft my whole career. I wouldn't be very impressed if I didn't get my third eventually just because I haven't been on a Sqn. It does my nut in when people come in to my work off a Sqn and think they are the dogs, they soon realise that not every bay is as easy as the picture they have in their heads. Likewise I know when I end up on a Sqn I will also have plenty to learn.

 

[Joe_90]

By your own logic Rob only people who have been employed in all areas of their trade deserve promotion. That includes all the bays they can work in and directly on the aircraft. How many aircraft types should they have under their belt before that promotion, is one enough?

 

[sleddog]

But sometimes I believe it's a case of big fish, small pond who shine in bays, but put them in different environment, i.e. a large sqn and they suddenly find life a little more harder and don't show any of that praised potential at all.

Also, I've found from personal experience that although the chief clerk ripped my last few years sjar's apart for my RO's bad wording, descriptive skills and examples, trying to get the RO's to change was impossible and they just took it as a insult. Banging my head against a wall!

Although, I've got to admit I think its more a case of 'playing the game', and after all my years of being upper end A grader (180-205) and last year a B grade (!), which I thought I want to get promoted but on my abilities I show as a potential JNCO rather than organising bake sales for brownies, etc.

Iv'e realised I can't just sit around, do my job the best i can anymore and be that JNCO in all but rank status, I've got to suck it up, stop whining and do what they are asking for. You know what the PSB is after, so find examples for each case.

If I don't get noticed this year, then I'll be bitter and twisted, lol.

 

[Zeebad]

I like most gave up trying to figure out the promotion game a long time back! We've all seen great lads passed over and pen fifteens get picked up. There is a guy at Marham who joined as an SAC (T) Av, that had his third in 8 years. Never touched an aircraft either.

From what I know, they board really have 20-30 senconds per SJAR, if you aren't sold to them so you leap out of the page and grab their attention, you are passed by.

Still no idea how morons with average assesments get promoted though, if you can't post dead wood, promote it.......

If he is good enough does it matter where he was employed?

You have been misinformed, they have time to read each SJAR, discuss the outcome and record the scores.

They (manning person, whom has probably never seen the inside of an a/c panel) did not give me very long, especially after the SJAR was 7 months late and a service complaint took (is taking 7 months so far and not satisfied in all aspects yet). I put up a comment of my woes in the service gen topic under, "retro boarding". Have been trying to let go of it as it makes my blood boil and to be honest pretty much depressed me. When I read some of these comments on the goat, the anger comes back and I feel I should do more, however after a cycle of this, it can end up distorting your priorities in life.