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Question for the Snecs

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big duke 6

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Been a lot of discussion at our place recently about the Sgts having to "step down" onto shift to help out at pinch point manning times. The 2 snecs work perm days as manpower controllers essentially.

Right or wrong?

One school of thought says tey've left the sh1t jobs behind them, the other school of thought thinks they should lead by example and from time to time step in to help out the lads.

What does the goat think. FWIW I think I know how this will pan out, largely dependant upon current rank.
 
Its all about teamwork isn't it?



Sent from my View pad apologies for the spelling
 
big duke 6 said:
Been a lot of discussion at our place recently about the Sgts having to "step down" onto shift to help out at pinch point manning times. The 2 snecs work perm days as manpower controllers essentially.

Right or wrong?

One school of thought says tey've left the sh1t jobs behind them, the other school of thought thinks they should lead by example and from time to time step in to help out the lads.

What does the goat think. FWIW I think I know how this will pan out, largely dependant upon current rank.
Click to expand...

I'm a Snec, i'd always do **** jobs with the lads, never asking them to do anything I wouldn't do myself. Teamwork, not rank, and respect for each other is what matters, not the rank on your shoulder! Hopefully there are others like me out there!
 
bubblebutt said:
I'm a Snec, i'd always do **** jobs with the lads, never asking them to do anything I wouldn't do myself. Teamwork, not rank, and respect for each other is what matters, not the rank on your shoulder! Hopefully there are others like me out there!
Click to expand...

well put, we start at the bottom, the troops always forget that and think we were born with stripes on!
 
3 of my SNECs were on the shop floor this week in denims and getting dirty. The SAC's and Cpl's all gave them LAC tabs to wear for a bit of morale, it worked. The work was completed, everyone saw the funny side and the respect for the SNECs has now gone up massively amongst a very young work force.

No job too small for anyone these days!!!
 
I'm surprised that this isn't the norm! On a certain grey 3 engined secret transport aircraft the SNCO's generally get their overalls on and hands dirty. Perhaps if manpower wasn't an issue then if wouldn't happen as much. I'd even go as far to say that it's frowned upon if the SNCO's are sitting round in blues.
 
How times change not always for the better.

in 1973 On 228 phantom OCU 0800-0830 hangar sweeping every day. Each trade had their own bit of hangar. All the plumbers would go out together from chief down to LAC and we'd all be back in the t bar together before everyone else and eat all the butties.

The other trades did it their way, the snecks read the paper in the snecks crewroom, the Cpls supervised and the erks swept up. Miserable bast@rds.

Oddly enough the plumber snecks used the erks crewroom.

In 1984 when I got back there, no snecks crewroom (well there was but not used as such) and everyone swept up it was as if they knew the plumbers were right all along:PDT_Xtremez_14:

Now it seems the wheel has turned again and snecks are above the menial tasks and morale can go fcuk itself!
 
What incentive is it to the young lads to push through for their third if, 15 yrs or more later, they see those Sgts still doing the same jobs?
 
big duke 6 said:
What incentive is it to the young lads to push through for their third if, 15 yrs or more later, they see those Sgts still doing the same jobs?
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Let's put it this way, who would you respect more the sneck who buckles down and mucks in with the sh1t every day stuff or the gash sneck sat drinking tea and eating biscuits whilst you do the donkey work?

Lead by example!
 
gemarriott said:
Let's put it this way, who would you respect more the sneck who buckles down and mucks in with the sh1t every day stuff or the gash sneck sat drinking tea and eating biscuits whilst you do the donkey work?

Lead by example!
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I completely agree, I would always work harder for someone who I know would get stuck in with me.

Of course there are times when as a SNCO you should take a step back and let the JNCO's supervise.
 
I appreciate this thread's title, but as a JNCO I have a comment to make.....

It is one thing to muck in and help the lads as and when needed, and should certainly happen in the SNCOs have nothing else on.
My recent experience has been SNCOs itching to get their hands dirty only to be either far too busy behind piles of paperwork, or told from above not to leave the office and to let JNCOs do the job.

I truly believe there are very few SNCOs who would sit around drinking tea and troughing biccies whilst the lads muck out.

JNCOs should also be given the opportunity to make their own mistakes and build their own confidence without a senior over their shoulder at every turn.

On an aside, I now work with the RN, and when I arrived here 4 years ago I was told by the shop Chief that if he saw me with a brush in my hand he would have my tapes off my shoulders. Cleaning up is a lads job, I was to busy myself with paperwork, real or fictional. Changed a little here now, but not much!
 
Stretchadams said:
On an aside, I now work with the RN, and when I arrived here 4 years ago I was told by the shop Chief that if he saw me with a brush in my hand he would have my tapes off my shoulders. Cleaning up is a lads job, I was to busy myself with paperwork, real or fictional. Changed a little here now, but not much!
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That's the Navy way not the RAF way, I'd leave that attitude when you come back to the RAF.
 
I think the fact you mentioned Pinchpoints shows that it's when the manpower isn't enough to do the required amount of work, which is more and more these days as they disestablish jobs rather than admit they are undermanned.

I've worked for some good and some bad SNECS and even the bad ones came out to help sometimes when we were short.
 
I am currently "grafting" whilst my Cpl is OOA. In my last job, I had no Cpl (and no SAC for a good while), so I grafted there too.

For me there is no alternative - watching folk's pay screw up while I sit and fiddle is not an option. In fact until I saw this thread I had never given mucking in and grafting a second thought.
 
bubblebutt said:
I'm a Snec, i'd always do **** jobs with the lads, never asking them to do anything I wouldn't do myself. Teamwork, not rank, and respect for each other is what matters, not the rank on your shoulder! Hopefully there are others like me out there!
Click to expand...
That was always the way on most of the squadrons I served on, everyone up to and including the rank of Chief was out grafting. In fact I can only remember one job, Missile Services Flight at Leuchars, where I never once saw SNCOs in my trade, (Fairy), with their overalls on, yet the Plumber SNCOs did. As a result we had a lot more respect for the Plumber SNCOs than we did for our own.
 
Just come from the land of mud-moving and it's the norm for 2 out of the 3 snecs on the desk to be in overalls while the third looks after the paperwork. Just been promoted to Rects Control and I still go out and help with the FOD plod or tidy cups in the tea-bar if the lads are all out. Jobs need doing, get done, end of.
 
Dixie68 said:
That was always the way on most of the squadrons I served on, everyone up to and including the rank of Chief was out grafting. In fact I can only remember one job, Missile Services Flight at Leuchars, where I never once saw SNCOs in my trade, (Fairy), with their overalls on, yet the Plumber SNCOs did. As a result we had a lot more respect for the Plumber SNCOs than we did for our own.
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It's really good to see this happening. As a young lad I always aspired to be a SNCO, now i'm there I hope i'm the one who's inspiring the young ones to progress, long may this continue, it's what makes us different and it's why I like serving in the RAF much more that the other services (all of which i've served with or been in!).cup of corrrfeee
 
The best formalised routine I have seen is where the Sgt's organise amongst themselves who will wear the 'shirt of power' for that week. This means that they are in blues and take care of the trade desk and all that entails. The other Sgts don denims and graft. Manpower is too short for numerous Sgts to be sat around chewing the fat and the occasional? cake/biccy.:PDT_Xtremez_19:
 
big duke 6 said:
I'm not sure people seeing the seniors doing sh1t jobs is aspirational. Where is the privilege of rank?
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The privilege is entering the mess, the pay and the extra responsibilities. If you don't have the respect of your Juniors then it's going to be a long tour. If that means sweeping the hanger, or staying late on fridays/weekends, working Christmas etc etc then it has to be done. Respect has to be earned. That way if you do have to give out crap jobs or ask for volunteers your more likely to get people rather then picking people.
 
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