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Reduction in numbers without changing the rank structure
- Thread starter Meathead
- Start date
K
kevin999s
Guest
Yep, I've bitten!
The military nurse is barely better off than their civilian counterparts (except the training). By working in MDHU's most RAF nurses work considerably more than the civilians. The basic pay of an NHS nurse is said to be crap, but when you add in unsocial hours (done by all secondary care nurses) they are within a couple of hundred quid of our salaries (sometimes better off). Most of the 'real military' would whinge if they were required to do the same amount of nights (all night not just till you get bored) and weekends we do.
At the moment my speciality are getting OOA dates before they return from their current OOA, turn around time on 3 month det's of 9 months. This requires a lot more 'military' training than most other trades get throughout the year. I know this is the same for a lot of trades as well, but others get a Vegas holiday and class that as a det!
I would say that this is most of the nursing trade, rather than less. The specialist pay spine is to aid retention due to the fact that we can get jobs without half the crap within the NHS.
Of course I was taking the p*** about the leader thing, however they are expected to be able to do that after Cranwell!
3wheeledtechie
Sergeant
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You're missing the point. Nurses are specialists, so I don't really care how they remunerate them.
Unlike nurses, pilots may potentially have command of some structures where an ill founded decision could have serious ramifications. The issue is that they have neglible command experience before being placed in a position where they could cause great harm. Personally I think that generally it is the best that reach the dizzy heights, but there are examples of chimps getting to at least Groupie level (Bob the B****** for anyone unfortunate enough to have been at a certain eastern location being a prime example).
Unlike nurses, pilots may potentially have command of some structures where an ill founded decision could have serious ramifications. The issue is that they have neglible command experience before being placed in a position where they could cause great harm. Personally I think that generally it is the best that reach the dizzy heights, but there are examples of chimps getting to at least Groupie level (Bob the B****** for anyone unfortunate enough to have been at a certain eastern location being a prime example).
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Revise Revise Revise
Revise Revise Revise
Radical relook,
One spline of Rank
AC - Trainee
SAC - Trained/Competent Airman (Cpl Rank could be used in here by applying a 1st Class or 2nd Class component).
Sgt - Head of Section/Shift day to day running of the coal face (Supervisor type Level)
Flt Lt - Manager, could also be used where responsibility is a requirement of the Job.
Sqn Ldr - Runs Sqns
Gp Capt - Runs Stns
Air Rank - Gets a bit confusing having never worked in this arena, but I'm sure if we get rid of a few steps/posts we'd have less great ideas and initiatives coming our way (more badges anybody) and be able to focus on our operational tasks.
One Spline with different points of entry, yet the chance to progress for all if they are competent and meet the needs of the next step.
Expand pay ranges to reward long service, with the removal of promotion levels let extensions of service be boarded rather than given to everyone eligible.
This might not be the best solution it might not even be a good solution but you cannot argue the future of the RAF and it's structures on one based on a much larger force.
Revise Revise Revise
Radical relook,
One spline of Rank
AC - Trainee
SAC - Trained/Competent Airman (Cpl Rank could be used in here by applying a 1st Class or 2nd Class component).
Sgt - Head of Section/Shift day to day running of the coal face (Supervisor type Level)
Flt Lt - Manager, could also be used where responsibility is a requirement of the Job.
Sqn Ldr - Runs Sqns
Gp Capt - Runs Stns
Air Rank - Gets a bit confusing having never worked in this arena, but I'm sure if we get rid of a few steps/posts we'd have less great ideas and initiatives coming our way (more badges anybody) and be able to focus on our operational tasks.
One Spline with different points of entry, yet the chance to progress for all if they are competent and meet the needs of the next step.
Expand pay ranges to reward long service, with the removal of promotion levels let extensions of service be boarded rather than given to everyone eligible.
This might not be the best solution it might not even be a good solution but you cannot argue the future of the RAF and it's structures on one based on a much larger force.
T
The Masked Geek
Guest
And lets put the air ranks on the same pension as the rest of us. Why the feck do they get to retire on FULL PAY....
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nashbag
Guest
Good stuff Busby. That is what i was getting at when i started the thread (it seems to have diversified off into bunfighting between nurses and pilots etc!)
I agree with you entirely, and if we were to get rid of some of our defunct ranks there would be more money to share out through competences or seniority. Seems like win win to me?
In the techie world it wouldnt quite work.
You'd need:
AC - trainee
SAC - post training, coal face worker, mechanic.
Some technician rank, maybe JT? A vital rank before a supervisory rank.
Cpl - The supervisor/trainer of SAC/JT's. Needed to raise independant requirements and as an oversigner for work carried out.
Sgt - Manager/shift/trade boss and independant checker. Manages the shift, teams, manpower and carries out independant checks.
The next rank should be a more administrative rank. Why we have chiefs and flt sgts and to some extent W.O.'s all doing potentially the same job sometimes eludes me. With less numbers at this rank we could have more numbers in the ranks below actually doing the work.
Give the rank responsibilities back to where they belong and take away some of the beaurocracy.
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DrunkenMonki
Guest
I agree on the face of it, but this would result in a massive slow down in promotion wouldn't it? We are slow compared to other services anyway, this would make it worse. In turn we'd then develop an even worse retention problem in techie trades.
Hard on to solve!
Hard on to solve!
Ghandi's Flip-Flop
Sergeant
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Thats because we keep crusty old bu66ers on until 55.
At the moment we're a bit in limbo.
We've had redundancies and yet there still seem to be too many old uns keeping promotion from flowing.
They should have aimed redundancies at the chiefs, flt sgts and warrants. That would have freed up the system a little.
For promotion to speed up you need someone else to leave or the LUE's need changing.
Bin off serving until age 55 and alter the pensions for the rest so that the max pension is 30 years instead of 37 years.
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The Dog's
Guest
Hmmm, not bad. It would need some fine tuning with, perhaps, another rank above or below sgt, but I think it could work. You have also added credibility by recognising that you would need to start engineers, doctors etc, some way up the spine at say Flt Lt. Senior officers would rule it out of course because they want to protect the status quo.
Some here might remember the Bett Report of about 15 years ago which advocated the severe pruning of ranks, especially those below WO recognising that there was considerable rank overlap. However, they stopped short of suggesting a single spine (after they were warned off I believe). Bett wanted all his recommendations incorporated to maximise the cost savings that the govt wanted, but in the event the report was 'cherry picked' for political reasons.
Well thanks for that, however, probably wont work. Got promoted to WO at 36, 2 years ago...question is, how do they keep me motivated for the next 17 years whilst I hold up the promotion for others? I am all for treating us like footy managers, pay up the contract and I will happily vaccate.
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nashbag
Guest
That would never happen, costs far too much.
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The Dog's
Guest
You would get automatic right of promotion to Flt Lt, like a few others I could mention.:0
mememe.....Out of interest what trade are you? I dont begrudge individuals getting on but 36!!
In the army, yep, no probs but for a blue suit that seems unbeliveable
Reserve the right to keep that one quiet, don't want to take more hits than necessary, I am sure you will understand.
Defo not army and at the time of promotion, I was told I was second youngest. The sh*tty photocopy/printed royal warrant now takes pride of place in my toilet as originally signed by DB... Not even an original signature, for what it is worth and where is the Royal connection?
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This is why it will never change
This is why it will never change
How do they do it in civi street, how do BA etc run their first line techie worlds. You don't have to be a Cpl to oversign you just have to be suitably competent. You can get paid for getting more quals and taking on extra responsibility without being promoted. Is there a requirement at this level to have rank and responsibility so closely tied.
If you want reform of the RAF it needs to be done by people ready to challenge those above them, and try not to feather their individual nest, unfortunately only yes men seem to get on so all we end up doing is going from balls up to balls up.
This is why it will never change
How do they do it in civi street, how do BA etc run their first line techie worlds. You don't have to be a Cpl to oversign you just have to be suitably competent. You can get paid for getting more quals and taking on extra responsibility without being promoted. Is there a requirement at this level to have rank and responsibility so closely tied.
If you want reform of the RAF it needs to be done by people ready to challenge those above them, and try not to feather their individual nest, unfortunately only yes men seem to get on so all we end up doing is going from balls up to balls up.
Either airman aircrew or in the Navy I'd guess getting to WO at that age.
Good effort though.
DT_Xtremez_30: