Reduction in numbers without changing the rank structure

[MrMasher]

How do they do it in civi street, how do BA etc run their first line techie worlds. You don't have to be a Cpl to oversign you just have to be suitably competent. You can get paid for getting more quals and taking on extra responsibility without being promoted. Is there a requirement at this level to have rank and responsibility so closely tied.

If you want reform of the RAF it needs to be done by people ready to challenge those above them, and try not to feather their individual nest, unfortunately only yes men seem to get on so all we end up doing is going from balls up to balls up.

But you also need to keep some sort of rank structure, we are a military force after all.

 

[mememe]

Either airman aircrew or in the Navy I'd guess getting to WO at that age.
Good effort though.DT_Xtremez_30:

Thanks, defo not aircrew or navy. Ground RAF. (Not ATC either).

 

[Meathead]

But you also need to keep some sort of rank structure, we are a military force after all.

You are right we are a military force, the point is that the manpower in say WWII supported the rank structure and that up until the mid 90s it was also working reasonably well, but now with a force that would only half fill Old Trafford, is it not time that it was looked ( bett report as someone mentioned previously) at again?

 

[Trenchards Ghost]

You are right we are a military force, the point is that the manpower in say WWII supported the rank structure and that up until the mid 90s it was also working reasonably well, but now with a force that would only half fill Old Trafford, is it not time that it was looked ( bett report as someone mentioned previously) at again?

I bet all the air ranks wouldn't fit in the directors boxes though.DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Murdog79]

I thought going through Cranwell successfully meant you were a leader by default? This is regardless of branch.

I can't defend the doc's here, but not all nurses go through Cranwell when they join up, a significant amount join as Junior ranks. The reason they do get commissioned is to track their pay to a comparable level in civvy street upon their prior experience in civvy street, otherwise we'd get no-one to join up. Hopefully this will soon vanish as the RAF seem to be moving to a specialist pay spine for nurses away from rank, so the rank will reflect your military capability, but your pay will take into account your specialist qualifications.

At least your pay is tracked "comparably" to civvy street . Us techies are apparently paid the same as a chef in civvy street. (No offence chefs but you dont really get prosecuted for manslaughter if you FCUK UP the pasta. If the Airships dont do something then the skills gap in the techie stream is gonna be intolerable.

 

[muttywhitedog]

question is, how do they keep me motivated for the next 17 years

Why should your employers keep you motivated? Can you not motivate yourself any more?

If you cant, then I think you answered this question yourself with your final statement in your opening introduction to the goat in the thread about what support we get from Medical Centres.

 

[mememe]

Why should your employers keep you motivated? Can you not motivate yourself any more?

If you cant, then I think you answered this question yourself with your final statement in your opening introduction to the goat in the thread about what support we get from Medical Centres.

If you cant, then I think you answered this question yourself with your final statement in your opening introduction to the goat in the thread about what support we get from Medical Centres.[/quote]
I would say that in today's business world and even in the military, it makes good business sense by the employer to intrinsically motivate their staff. I accept that this only happens in certain trades, usually by retention bonus, although this is arguably divisive. The military depend on extrinsically motivating their staff and have done so for many a year. This, however, has been pushed beyond the boundaries, coupled with the obvious erosion of the "can do" attitude due to abuse by our great leaders, another example of this is the broken covenant. So in answer to your question, why should they? If they want to retain quality personnel then start treating them like they actually mean something to the organization and not as a piece of sh*t on some politicians shoe.

 

[Realist78]

I bet all the air ranks wouldn't fit in the directors boxes though.DT_Xtremez_25:

Take a look at the ACOS manning intranet site and it will lead you to the Air Force list, read it and weep!DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[MAINJAFAD]

I think you will find that QRs mention the need to hold a commission to interpret ROE on airborne platforms! The AAC do have SNCO pilots on AH47s but the gunner is commissioned.

As most combat aircraft are single seat then the commissioned pilots are here to stay I'm afraid.

Front seaters on the Apaches are not all officers, though the SNCO ones are not the new boys (i.e. WO rank). SNCO aircrew were able to let loose a lot more firepower than they can today 60 years ago. The Officer Aircrew only for weapons bit was for the Nuclear mission, which we haven't done for 10 years.

 

[jack brew]

Make no mistake, just because they have successfully completed Cranwell does not entitle them to be "leaders" by default.

It makes them managers, there's a big difference

 

[mememe]

It makes them managers, there's a big difference

I agree, difference between leaders and managers is huge. I would go as far as to say, once IOT completed they are u/t managers, in a similar way we don't allow LAC's to work unsupervisied until proficiency has been demonstrated.