Retention for Pers Admin

[KingGuin]

In addition to what TrebleB said reference KG comments. QUOTE]

I feel much maligned. Please read my comments again - I was playing Devil's Advocate. As for working for me - that's nice and easy: if you are good you get a good ACR, if you are pants, and remain so despite me telling you, you get a not-so-good ACR.

Additionally, regardless of rank or trade everyone knows at least one tw*t who has been promoted whom, in their opinion, did not deserve it. Indeed I am sure there are many who would say the same about me!

As an aside, any news on the Trade Review? I am currently overseas and bereft of info.

 

[Kernow]

In addition to what TrebleB said reference KG comments. QUOTE]

I feel much maligned. Please read my comments again - I was playing Devil's Advocate. As for working for me - that's nice and easy: if you are good you get a good ACR, if you are pants, and remain so despite me telling you, you get a not-so-good ACR.

Additionally, regardless of rank or trade everyone knows at least one tw*t who has been promoted whom, in their opinion, did not deserve it. Indeed I am sure there are many who would say the same about me!

As an aside, any news on the Trade Review? I am currently overseas and bereft of info.[/QUOTE]

Apparently it is due to be published this week. I'm sure they have said that before though and then put it back.

 

[tommo9999]

Let's hope the announcement provides a viable future for the Trade. I think lots of us would wish to stay, but we need a change of structure. Here's hoping for good news.

 

[Kernow]

Let's hope the announcement provides a viable future for the Trade. I think lots of us would wish to stay, but we need a change of structure. Here's hoping for good news.

Second that sentiment, it has been easy to get quite excited (not in a good way) with every rumour flying around.

Off Topic Hows the weather darn sarf at the mo, take it, it was a smooth ride?

 

[tommo9999]

Off Topic

Weather is okay today, but there have been a couple of shockers since I arrived. Flight down was a nightmare, stuck at ASI in the cage for 9 hours because of high winds in MPA.

Off Topic

 

[Boarderlyne]

In addition to what TrebleB said reference KG comments. I am a 7 year SAC, work in a PSF and have had 6 specs for the last 4 years. My position on the board has been high for the last 2 years, but not high enough, last year i was 3 below what they picked up and this year I am pretty much the same. I really do love my job and like to think that I am quite good at it, I have worn A/Cpl tapes for the last 2 years on and off (more on than off) but am very well aware that "real" promotion could still be years off.

What is more disillusioning is every year more and more SAC's enter the promotion field. What I am doing wrong God only knows but the Cpl we got in our place on promotion has been in 4 years, worked in VIP (same job) since being an LAC and knows diddly squat about JPA or the trade in general! I on the other hand have had more jobs than i care to remember (none VIP interestingly enough) and recognition seems to be non existent!!

So retention for Pers Admin in my eyes seems bleak. I have not PVR'd and really do not wish to, as I said i really do enjoy my job (a rarity I have found). However, time marches on, I am lucky enough to have a degree behind me (Open University in my spare time!!) so if promotion is not forthcoming then I will bail after my 9 years when maybe I can get a job where my dedication is recognised!

Rant over....

Know how you feel. Took me 11 years to get my two banana but the harsh reality is that we now have a lot of good people competing for the same slots. A fellow 2 banana got his third last year after 1 High and 4 Specs and I chuffed to bits for him as he is a good lad, but another has the same amount of Highs and Specs but only barely got a sniff this year. To many of us that haven't seen how a promotion board works, it seems to be a bit of a black art until it is explained (still seems to be a black art! DT_Xtremez_30: ) but when you talk to a Snec that has had his third for longer than I spent as a SAC and has had more Specs that I could believe and he's struggling to get his crown, then it goes to show how tough it is to get ahead. Hopefully, the new SJAR will stop assessment creep and aid us in getting ahead, but with the drawdown, I am not hopeful of promotion picking up in time for me to get my third banana and I so wanted to get my pipe and slippers! DT_Xtremez_27:

 

[Kernow]

Know how you feel. Took me 11 years to get my two banana but the harsh reality is that we now have a lot of good people competing for the same slots. A fellow 2 banana got his third last year after 1 High and 4 Specs and I chuffed to bits for him as he is a good lad, but another has the same amount of Highs and Specs but only barely got a sniff this year. To many of us that haven't seen how a promotion board works, it seems to be a bit of a black art until it is explained (still seems to be a black art! DT_Xtremez_30: ) but when you talk to a Snec that has had his third for longer than I spent as a SAC and has had more Specs that I could believe and he's struggling to get his crown, then it goes to show how tough it is to get ahead. Hopefully, the new SJAR will stop assessment creep and aid us in getting ahead, but with the drawdown, I am not hopeful of promotion picking up in time for me to get my third banana and I so wanted to get my pipe and slippers! DT_Xtremez_27:

Unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case. The F6000 was supposed to stop the assessment creep when it was introduced, but as we see now it hasn't. Is there a sure fire way of doing it, I don't know and TBH I don't think anyone else really does. You could take away the scoring part whether it is 1-6 or D-A, but the write-ups will always be inflated regardless.

 

[KingGuin]

Unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case. The F6000 was supposed to stop the assessment creep when it was introduced, but as we see now it hasn't. Is there a sure fire way of doing it, I don't know and TBH I don't think anyone else really does. You could take away the scoring part whether it is 1-6 or D-A, but the write-ups will always be inflated regardless.

I have said previously I am a big fan of the ACR and I hope it works. Nonetheless if I had it within my gift (and in an ideal world) I would:
1. Promulgate widely pre-boarding, boarding and prom placing. No speculation, rumour, just hard facts.
2. Re-introduce a Promex - thus, in theory, every candidate for promotion should have the same knowledge base. (Remember it's only a theory)

Failing that I would, if only to have a swing (see earlier post) at some tw*t who got promoted ahead of me, put everyone in a ring and award promotion to the last one standing.

Mind you with the Trade review imminent you could all come round to my house for a brew and we could decide amongst ourselves. DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[True Blue Jack]

I have said previously I am a big fan of the ACR and I hope it works. Nonetheless if I had it within my gift (and in an ideal world) I would:
1. Promulgate widely pre-boarding, boarding and prom placing. No speculation, rumour, just hard facts.
2. Re-introduce a Promex - thus, in theory, every candidate for promotion should have the same knowledge base. (Remember it's only a theory)

Failing that I would, if only to have a swing (see earlier post) at some tw*t who got promoted ahead of me, put everyone in a ring and award promotion to the last one standing.

Mind you with the Trade review imminent you could all come round to my house for a brew and we could decide amongst ourselves. DT_Xtremez_19:

I've always been a fan of promotion exams because it is always difficult when you get a new Snec in PSF who has never worked in the PFA before (reminds me of my first Chf Clk who, as a WO, was doing his first PSF tour ever). But that's the problem - our trade is employed in such diverse areas that you couldn't cover all bases in a promex and to cover PFA only would disadvantage those who - through no fault of their own - have only worked in other areas.

I think we should organise a TG17 get-together after the implementation of the trade review. There's a phone box near me that will do the job just nicely. DT_Xtremez_42:

On your other point - will more transparency in the promotion boarding process be of any benefit? Once upon a time you only knew you were to be promoted when your boss gave you your blue letter. Now we have access to all kinds of information about pre-board grading, position on the ratified PSL, etc., which I believe is largely responsible for 'assessment creep'. More information will not ensure that promotion goes to those who have done the most to earn it, but will continue to go to those who have the best narratives.

 

[Realist78]

I've always been a fan of promotion exams because it is always difficult when you get a new Snec in PSF who has never worked in the PFA before (reminds me of my first Chf Clk who, as a WO, was doing his first PSF tour ever). But that's the problem - our trade is employed in such diverse areas that you couldn't cover all bases in a promex and to cover PFA only would disadvantage those who - through no fault of their own - have only worked in other areas.

I think we should organise a TG17 get-together after the implementation of the trade review. There's a phone box near me that will do the job just nicely. DT_Xtremez_42:

On your other point - will more transparency in the promotion boarding process be of any benefit? Once upon a time you only knew you were to be promoted when your boss gave you your blue letter. Now we have access to all kinds of information about pre-board grading, position on the ratified PSL, etc., which I believe is largely responsible for 'assessment creep'. More information will not ensure that promotion goes to those who have done the most to earn it, but will continue to go to those who have the best narratives.

Until somebody comes up with a more equitable method than ACR aided promotions, is a well written narrative not fair? Just a question.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Until somebody comes up with a more equitable method than ACR aided promotions, is a well written narrative not fair? Just a question.

When it is deserved, yes. When it is artificially inflated, e.g., listing a ream of non-existant associated/secondary duties with the express intent of giving the subject a better chance of promotion, no. Trust me, if every appraisal that crosses my desk is accurate then my Sqn must have over 200 toolkits and each service vehicle is DI'd by half a dozen mechs.

 

[Realist78]

When it is deserved, yes. When it is artificially inflated, e.g., listing a ream of non-existant associated/secondary duties with the express intent of giving the subject a better chance of promotion, no. Trust me, if every appraisal that crosses my desk is accurate then my Sqn must have over 200 toolkits and each service vehicle is DI'd by half a dozen mechs.

Couldn't agree more as I have about 50 scout leaders, 25 football coaches etc etc. The thing is, when I get one across my desk (wuff wuff) with that sh1te on and I know that it's all b0llocks, back to the 1st RO it goes. I also put a tips sheet in when they are issued to avoid things like "...is actively seeking a meaningful secondary duty etc" and the feckers want extra kudos for that? No way, tip sheet says that if they were..they would have found one by now! Unfortunately, some 1st ROs don't filter the bullsh1t or they believe the sh1te they are given by the subject. There's no easy answer I'm afraid.DT_Xtremez_17:

 

[BlahBlah]

This has just been released reference the Trade Review:-

Ladies/Gents



1. By now you will all have been expecting an announcement in respect of the Branch & Trade Review. The following is an extract from the soon to be released Aug 07 Personnel Bulletin.



UPDATE ON 10% STRETCH TARGET FOR ADMIN SPECIALISATION



A decision was reached by the Air Force Board Standing Committee recently on the 10% stretch target for the Admin Specialisation Branch and Trade (B&T). However, further higher level staffing work is required so no completion time is available at present. Once detail has been received by the B&T Sponsor, it will be issued immediately to the B&T Specialisation.



2. Clearly this will be a disappointment to you and everyone in the Branch & Trade. I am well aware of the impact that this is having at unit level but I can assure you that everything is being done to release the detail and findings as soon as possible. Neither the A1 Spec Supt Team nor Air Manning are in a position to advise you any further at this stage.





D** *****



D *****



So the wait goes on............

 

[Kernow]

This has just been released reference the Trade Review:-

Ladies/Gents



1. By now you will all have been expecting an announcement in respect of the Branch & Trade Review. The following is an extract from the soon to be released Aug 07 Personnel Bulletin.



UPDATE ON 10% STRETCH TARGET FOR ADMIN SPECIALISATION



A decision was reached by the Air Force Board Standing Committee recently on the 10% stretch target for the Admin Specialisation Branch and Trade (B&T). However, further higher level staffing work is required so no completion time is available at present. Once detail has been received by the B&T Sponsor, it will be issued immediately to the B&T Specialisation.



2. Clearly this will be a disappointment to you and everyone in the Branch & Trade. I am well aware of the impact that this is having at unit level but I can assure you that everything is being done to release the detail and findings as soon as possible. Neither the A1 Spec Supt Team nor Air Manning are in a position to advise you any further at this stage.





D** *****



D *****



So the wait goes on............

Twas to be expected. Oh well plod on as usual.

 

[tommo9999]

Yup, it's a case of Ready, Steady, Wait once again. I'm sure things are not easy for them, but this is beyond any semblance of a joke now.

 

[Shiny_Happy]

Perhaps they are waiting for 10% of us to get pi55ed of enough to PVR. Hey presto, stretch target met with no nasty redundancies to hit the newspaper headlines

 

[skevans]

a strong case from Sec Sponsor to put Cpl's on higher pay band.

Sounds like nonsense to me.

You have a problem retaining SAC's not Cpl's

Whatever the problems are within your trade, promotion to Cpl is unlikely IMHO to be the reason why SAC's are leaving in droves.

So why do you think that increasing Cpl pay will encourage SAC's to stay?

 

[BlahBlah]

Sounds like nonsense to me.

You have a problem retaining SAC's not Cpl's

Whatever the problems are within your trade, promotion to Cpl is unlikely IMHO to be the reason why SAC's are leaving in droves.

So why do you think that increasing Cpl pay will encourage SAC's to stay?

It does seem that the reason SAC's are leaving in droves is, in part, down to promotion. Also with the continuing frustrations with JPA (well more the JPAC) more pressure is being piled on SAC's to get what seems to be a never ending job done. At 80% manning forecast in Dec 07 (augusts chf clks bulletin) it is not looking at getting better.

With the trade review being due for what seems the last 2 years the future is so uncertain. Will promotion ever pick up? What jobs are they going to cut? and why on earth is it taking so long?

As for Cpls being put on the higher pay band, I do not think this will ever happen and as for retention of SAC's this "carrott" would not make me stay if I had made the decision to leave. In fact it would probably make me more resentful of those idiots who get promoted after 4 years, are complete t**ts and incompentent and need to be carried by the SAC's on the lower pay scale. IMHO this would probably increase the PVR rate among SAC's rather than reduce it!!

 

[KingGuin]

This has just been released reference the Trade Review:-

Ladies/Gents



1. By now you will all have been expecting an announcement in respect of the Branch & Trade Review. The following is an extract from the soon to be released Aug 07 Personnel Bulletin.



UPDATE ON 10% STRETCH TARGET FOR ADMIN SPECIALISATION



A decision was reached by the Air Force Board Standing Committee recently on the 10% stretch target for the Admin Specialisation Branch and Trade (B&T). However, further higher level staffing work is required so no completion time is available at present. Once detail has been received by the B&T Sponsor, it will be issued immediately to the B&T Specialisation.



2. Clearly this will be a disappointment to you and everyone in the Branch & Trade. I am well aware of the impact that this is having at unit level but I can assure you that everything is being done to release the detail and findings as soon as possible. Neither the A1 Spec Supt Team nor Air Manning are in a position to advise you any further at this stage.





D** *****



D *****



So the wait goes on............

BB did this come from A1 Spec Sup? In my real job I would have seen this but alas in my temp purple home....................

 

[BlahBlah]

KG indeed it did!! It was e-mailed to Chf Clks yesterday and has been published in August Chf Clk's bulletin which has been released today.