SJAR Service Complaint?

[ERT]

Did you have -

1st RO "Dev"
2nd RO "Yes"
Employment next rank "Cpl"
​

I suspect that may give it away to the board that there has been a slip up...if the potential is stinking of JNCO, Cpl, NCO then it should be okay.

If its..

1st RO "Dev"
2nd RO "Dev"
Employment Next rank "SAC"
​

Then your pretty much stuck with it...

 

[Ringo]

Did you have -

1st RO "Dev"
2nd RO "Yes"
Employment next rank "Cpl"
​

This would require a 3rd RO. That's a significant difference of opinion and one which shouldnt end up being a disagreement between 1st and 2nd RO.
Also, don't forget that all SJARS should be given a once over by someone in PSF, to check.

I suspect that may give it away to the board that there has been a slip up...if the potential is stinking of JNCO, Cpl, NCO then it should be okay.

If its..

1st RO "Dev"
2nd RO "Dev"
Employment Next rank "SAC"
​

Then your pretty much stuck with it...

This guys whole story doesn't weigh up in my eyes.

Hes best mates with his 1st RO allegedly.
He doesn't look at the promotion recommendation.......something 99% of people look at first.

No way would a 'DEV' recommendation, not result in a Potential Narrative, which would clearly state the subject is not currently ready for advancement.

1st RO was switched on enough to give him an MPAR, something which although mandatory, many still don't get.
And he's kept pretty quiet about the contents of the MPAR.

I see only a disgruntled SAC, regardless of how he's trying to come across on here.

His true colours have shone through on a couple of comments which he's made.

 

[chumpzilla]

Will have to read and digest these, but I currently have a sick Wife to deal with. I'll respond next week.

Sorry to hear that your loved one is ill. I wish you both all the best.

I do agree with what advice has been posted. Although very difficult to swallow, you are stuck with the report... And I feel that maybe it was unwise to ask this forum of straight talking individuals for advice while you are perhaps not in the best frame of mind, owing to your current situation.

Your chief clerk is the go to person in all of this. Maybe they can offer some career advice to assist in future appraisals?

As a 1RO myself, I sit down with my subjects and read them their appraisal (either face to face or on the phone) and hand them a copy. I then recommend that they take it away and use the maximum amount of time to get advice from whomever they deem necessary.

Again, I wish you and your family all the best and hope a speedy recovery happens for your wife

 

[stereolab]

Sorry to hear that your loved one is ill. I wish you both all the best.

I do agree with what advice has been posted. Although very difficult to swallow, you are stuck with the report... And I feel that maybe it was unwise to ask this forum of straight talking individuals for advice while you are perhaps not in the best frame of mind, owing to your current situation.

Your chief clerk is the go to person in all of this. Maybe they can offer some career advice to assist in future appraisals?

As a 1RO myself, I sit down with my subjects and read them their appraisal (either face to face or on the phone) and hand them a copy. I then recommend that they take it away and use the maximum amount of time to get advice from whomever they deem necessary.

Again, I wish you and your family all the best and hope a speedy recovery happens for your wife

I agree fully with the above comments, it is time to move on, haveaquick chat with the SNCO in General Office, gets his/her view on the matter ,listen inwardly digest, and move on. You will be learning a few lessons by now, RO's are not your friends, if a technical mistake had occurred in the SJAR, it would have been noticed. When you become a 1st RO, and you will, remember what has been said above, by a number of ex TG 17 SNCO's, all free advice, maybe not what you wanted to hear, but still true all the same.

 

[Ringo]

I agree fully with the above comments, it is time to move on, haveaquick chat with the SNCO in General Office, gets his/her view on the matter ,listen inwardly digest, and move on. You will be learning a few lessons by now, RO's are not your friends, if a technical mistake had occurred in the SJAR, it would have been noticed. When you become a 1st RO, and you will, remember what has been said above, by a number of ex TG 17 SNCO's, all free advice, maybe not what you wanted to hear, but still true all the same.

"When you become a 1st RO, and you will" .....jeez, I hope you don't write SJARs like this !!!

You must have some amazing abilities not bestowed on the rest of us.
From one post, where the OP, basically says his 1st RO is a Pri*k because he hasn't given him a 'yes', you have managed to conclude that this guy will undoubtedly rise to SNCO status.

Fair play mate........

ps. The ONLY lesson the OP has learnt from this......is to take responsibility for HIS OWN SJAR, it's an equally shared responsibility which he has the most responsibility for....seeing as it mostly affects HIS life.

Its complete bullsh**, that he comes crying on here, painting his 1st RO to be some sort of incompetent fool, when in fact, he's not supplied one bit of evidence to suggest that is the case.

 

[stereolab]

"When you become a 1st RO, and you will" .....jeez, I hope you don't write SJARs like this !!!

You must have some amazing abilities not bestowed on the rest of us.
From one post, where the OP, basically says his 1st RO is a Pri*k because he hasn't given him a 'yes', you have managed to conclude that this guy will undoubtedly rise to SNCO status.

Fair play mate........

ps. The ONLY lesson the OP has learnt from this......is to take responsibility for HIS OWN SJAR, it's an equally shared responsibility which he has the most responsibility for....seeing as it mostly affects HIS life.

Its complete bullsh**, that he comes crying on here, painting his 1st RO to be some sort of incompetent fool, when in fact, he's not supplied one bit of evidence to suggest that is the case.

He will learn from this,he will learn not to come on e-goat and get a kicking. Give the guy some hope.

 

[stereolab]

"When you become a 1st RO, and you will" .....jeez, I hope you don't write SJARs like this !!!

You must have some amazing abilities not bestowed on the rest of us.
From one post, where the OP, basically says his 1st RO is a Pri*k because he hasn't given him a 'yes', you have managed to conclude that this guy will undoubtedly rise to SNCO status.

Fair play mate........

ps. The ONLY lesson the OP has learnt from this......is to take responsibility for HIS OWN SJAR, it's an equally shared responsibility which he has the most responsibility for....seeing as it mostly affects HIS life.

Its complete bullsh**, that he comes crying on here, painting his 1st RO to be some sort of incompetent fool, when in fact, he's not supplied one bit of evidence to suggest that is the case.

Did I miss the E-goat SJAR seminar? It is 20 years since I wrote a F6442.

 

[busby1971]

Guys, the OP is asking for advice on his Service Complaint, has anyone been in a similar situation and what was the outcome?

Some good advice so far, especially the go see te Chf Clk, who may be able to do something informally.

No need to get personal.

 

[Ringo]

Guys, the OP is asking for advice on his Service Complaint, has anyone been in a similar situation and what was the outcome?

Some good advice so far, especially the go see te Chf Clk, who may be able to do something informally.

No need to get personal.

Are you serious ???

Did you miss the bit where he asks everyone to agree that his 1st RO is a PRI*K ???

He has provided ABSOLUTELY no evidence that his 1st RO has acted in anyway against policy.

So because HE DIDNT read his own SJAR properly, DIDNT look at his recommendations, DIDNT take responsibility for his actions......he should now waste everyone's time in trying to seek redress for his mistakes ???

Do me a favour.....the RAF is too small and too overworked for people like Chief Clerks to be wasting their time on grievances like this.

I give up.....................

 

[Witty_Banter]

Are you serious ???

Did you miss the bit where he asks everyone to agree that his 1st RO is a PRI*K ???

He has provided ABSOLUTELY no evidence that his 1st RO has acted in anyway against policy

True, his comments are one-sided, but then unless his 1RO was sitting next to him when he typed the OP, they would be, wouldn't they...

As for the pr!ck comment, I would imagine that was a bit of a stab after the first few responders basically ripped into him. Probably ill advised (as some SNCO egoaters seem a bit touchy about it). My understanding of the scenario is that his conversations with his 1RO did not indicate or reflect the write up value - if my 1RO had done this, I'd have a similar response. I would query whether the 1RO is the same 1RO who wrote the previous SJARs, if not then that might be where things have fallen down (from the OP's perspective).

So because HE DIDNT read his own SJAR properly, DIDNT look at his recommendations, DIDNT take responsibility for his actions......he should now waste everyone's time in trying to seek redress for his mistakes ???

I would imagine that the OP is just venting, in what he considered may be a sympathetic audience. Now that he's got it off his chest, he may well be able to sit back and admire the steep learning curve he's just had to climb. But what the majority of responses have achieved is to highlight that a large proportion of SNCOs may well be utter CNUTS. Well done, gentlemen, well done...[/QUOTE]

Do me a favour.....the RAF is too small and too overworked for people like Chief Clerks to be wasting their time on grievances like this.

This last bit I really take umbridge with. Yes the RAF is smaller than it should be and everyone is overworked. However, it is the Chief Clerks job FFS. When there is a need for a serious discussion about your SJAR, then you take a pew in the Chief Clerk's office and he tell's you what's what. That's what he's there for (amongst other things). If your Admin WO can't make time to deal with SJARs then there's something seriously wrong. It is most certainly NOT wasting his time. Had the OP done this in the first instance, then this thread probably wouldn't exist - he would likely have been told exactly the same thing as the responses in this thread, but it would have been in a far more professional manner and would have been dealt with properly, with explanations of where he went wrong.

 

[Witty_Banter]

Yes. Their is no way a Senior NCO should be "friends" with a junior rank. As they say on IMLC, if you want to be friends with one of them, hand back your third.

I'm sorry, but you need to correct / expand on this to stop it sounding like utter bollocks.

In so far as your immediate line management is concerned, a SNCO should not really be bezzy mates with their SACs - that doesn't mean that they can't be friendly (first name terms in close knit workplaces are common in the RAF these days!). The one up/one down rule is the norm, as are Sgt to Cpl 'mates' and Cpl to SAC 'mates'. Just so long as everyone remembers who's in charge and who has the final word in all things work related.

When direct line management is not an issue, than your statement is shot to sh!t. I'm a JNCO, but I'm good mates with people across the 3 services and of varying rank / warrant / commission, and there's never been a problem. As far a friendship within the services is concerned, rank is irrelevant outside of the line management environment.

Unless of course you're one of those sad individuals who thinks that he should only mix with those of equal rank. In which case, please feel free to adopt the 'nobby no mates' position at the bar...

 

[muttywhitedog]

I had an SAC MTD on my Wing who tried to raise a SC every year for four years over his SJAR. He took offence to his 1ROs and 2ROs writing along the lines of "SAC XXX has hit his ceiling as a junior SAC and I cannot ever see him becoming a candidate for promotion, let alone a JNCO".

Every year, I spent 4-5 hours listening to this guy telling me how unfair his SJAR was, but he could never bring any hard evidence as to why he should get anything higher than a B- and "Dev". Even OC PSF used to cringe when his name was mentioned!

 

[muttywhitedog]

Unless of course you're one of those sad individuals who thinks that he should only mix with those of equal rank. In which case, please feel free to adopt the 'nobby no mates' position at the bar...

I sense a return for ILLBW very soon to insist you PM him your number for MAA!

 

[Witty_Banter]

I sense a return for ILLBW very soon to insist you PM him your number for MAA!

Surely he'd refuse to acknowledge my existence, as I'm a 'lowly Junior Rank'....

 

[Witty_Banter]

I'm confused, the OP asked for advice. Because he (and some other posters) didn't like the advice of people who have years of service behind them, they are ripping into him?

What is acceptable advice? Is it only allowed if it is what the poster wants to hear?

Not at all. There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling someone straight, sometimes the truth hurts. However, some people - no names mentioned - have a less than tactful approach to the delivery of that truth.

Are tact and diplomacy not requirements for a SNCO?

 

[muttywhitedog]

What is acceptable advice? Is it only allowed if it is what the poster wants to hear?

With some posters on here, most definitely the case!

 

[Ringo]

With some posters on here, most definitely the case!

Its okay, I've been warned by personal email that I need to calm down.

Obviously, my opinion is not relevant.

I need to look at the forum rules again...see which one I broke.
Cause I'm pretty sure, all I did was give my opinion and put forward a debate in posts I didn't agree with.

 

[Witty_Banter]

Anyway, to try and give a neutral reflection on the OP:

The OP states that he's now posted, and that his most recent SJAR is a High Rec. My first question would be, has the same RO written your last 3 SJARs?

If the write up and gradings don't match up, and it's your middle SJAR of a set of 3 that the board reads, then they would / should question it regardless (to jump from Rec to Dev to High Rec should raise questions). If he's gone from Dev to Dev to High Rec then I'd not worry about it anway.

Things like missing MPARs / Det reports just make the CoC look stupid - I'd be reading the President's Report for that particular board, to see what's been said.

Regardless the content, as the OP has already had another SJAR since the one in question was written, I'd say that there's little room for complaint - it's already history. Raising a complaint now would just put your head in the firing line. Given the events of the OP's life at the time, I would advise that he mark this one up as a life lesson learned the hard way - never take your eye off the ball - and don't have too much faith in your CoC, your line manager will always do what's best for you, so long as it doesn't get in the way of 'what the Unit wants' or their own requirements (by that I'm referring to command boards, etc, not personal vendettas).

 

[Witty_Banter]

Its okay, I've been warned by personal email that I need to calm down.

Obviously, my opinion is not relevant.

Not that I'm privvy to your personal emails, but I would imagine that the warning would have come from the latter of your comments, perhaps the last 4. And the persistent references to wasting everyone's time / your time / chief clerk's time... obviously this is only my perception, I have no idea why you got your knuckles rapped.

The same as for everyone, your opinions are your own and you are welcome to air them, but perhaps the Admins were suggesting that you share them in a less argumentative tone?

 

[TG3 TILL I DIE!!!!]

Not that I'm privvy to your personal emails, but I would imagine that the warning would have come from the latter of your comments, perhaps the last 4. And the persistent references to wasting everyone's time / your time / chief clerk's time... obviously this is only my perception, I have no idea why you got your knuckles rapped.

The same as for everyone, your opinions are your own and you are welcome to air them, but perhaps the Admins were suggesting that you share them in a less argumentative tone?

Ah leave him alone. He's just ****ed off because he's been shafted by NEM lol!