Stand-By Duties

[billy bollox]

It's not just Innsworth and Embassy Whallas, there's also the VIP guys within our trade who don't have a scooby how to deal with real life and real people.

Being recalled from leave is a fact of life for service people, however, this is only when operationally required, as this geezer is on standby guard he is on standby guard and therefore on duty, albeit standby duty, and therefore does not have free and unrestricted movement.

Leave pass, fukc it.

Straight from JSP 760- Tri Services Regs for Leave and Other Types Of Absences.

RECALL FROM ANNUAL LEAVE
1.007 Service personnel should be recalled from Annual Leave only for the most compelling reasons. For example, it might be necessary to recall members of the Armed Forces on Annual Leave in the event of heightened tension or an emergency.

So not to replace someone who has gone down with Flu!!! Another reason why Standby IS A DUTY and Leave SHOULD NOT BE USED !!

 

[shimmeringbottom]

Certain members of TG17 do us no favours whatsoever and it really pi$$es me off.

Being completely honest I can't say my PSF knowledge is that good having not been in that environment for 18years but I do try and keep upto date. However, one thing I won't do is offer advice to people when I don't actually know the answer.

Sometimes people need to remember that the types of questions adminers get asked often has a big impact on personnel and their families. So, I guess what I am saying is if a clerk doesn't know the answer, no way should they either make it up or give their 'opinion' - be honest with the individual and find out the answer by looking it up, you will then remember it next time etc etc..

It's not rocket science but I believe sometimes they find it harder to say 'I don't know and will find out for you' rather than just blurting out some load of sh!te....and then the problems start for the individual.

However, caution here coz how many times have you been told I will call you back and never heard from them.....I know I have and I am a scribbly!

It's all about offering the best service you can.

When I was in PSF way back when this is what I advocated and told my SACs, they didn't like it to start with but soon got used to it and guess what, their knowledge improved quickly therefore the trip to the AP (as it was) became less and less....

I suspect this is the case here, they didn't know the answer, didn't bother finding out so made it up, not malicious just inexperienced.

RANT OVER and SOAP BOX PUT AWAY!

Off for a cup of corrrfeee of stfu

 

[Weebl]

Astonishingly, I was asked to provide said Adminer with a list of who was on Duty over the Grant. So I did and then he came back with "X" on guard is to put leave pass in either side of his duty and "Y" is to put leave in for the whole grant covering his standby" At that point I saw red and I'm still sorting it out now.

Have you talked to the Guard Commander who will be responsible for him over the period?

Either that or pop down the Guardroom and have a scan through the Guard Orders. There will definitely be reference in there to periods of standby and leave. Copy that and quote it to your helpful scribbly.

Or just show him this thread and point out all the other adminners think he is a cnut who has no idea how to do his job as well.

 

[Mightierthan]

Or just show him this thread and point out all the other adminners think he is a cnut who has no idea how to do his job as well.

And name him here - or pm all us scribblies with his name!

 

[Odie]

It seems pretty simple and clear cut to me, if there are orders to cover it, then it's a duty and the individual concerned can't be on leave. DT_Xtremez_30:It would appear that the person insisting he be on leave is a tugger of the first order. DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[billy bollox]

Still ongoing with this, I am opening several cans of worms as I get my teeth into this!!

I have spoken with the RAF Families Assc after Googling "leave of absence". They have informed me though their P1 contacts etc that if said airman is on leave and gets called in as he is also on Standby Guard (stay with it, this gets good), then before he even gets briefed why he has been called in by the Guard Cmdr, let alone gets a weapon, legally he has to be back on Stn strength. That would require the Duty Clerk to come in and take him off leave on JPA. Otherwise Rules of Engagement etc and insurance is none existance.

Now, if the duty clerk has to come in....are they themselves on leave or a duty?? And what happens if the duty Squipper, duty GEF bod, duty Photog's etc etc get called in over the same period....are they too on leave or on a duty??
After thinking about this today, this is a product of all PH and SD's etc now credited and being on JPA and we have to use them when we are credited. Previous years we would have just left the week free as its covered by PH's and SD's. So yet another balls up caused by JPA!!

As I said, its getting deeper!!

I had this out again with said Admin ref the above; nowt to do with him, speak to Chief Clerk and/or OC PMS.

DT_Xtremez_32:

I am not giving in on this one, teeth firmly dug in !

 

[rest have risen above me]

Billy what the feck is your Sqn WO doing? You should be looking up how to fix that computerised air display machine you work on, not having to chase up guard orders in the guardroom or wasting time arguing with ancilliaries who seem to have lost their common sense. When you've finished put a MEMS in as this to55er is obviously distracting you, So affecting Flight safety.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I had this out again with said Admin ref the above; nowt to do with him, speak to Chief Clerk and/or OC PMS.

Billy, what camp is this buffoonery happening at? I want to make sure that it is not on my areas of choice as it sounds like you have the entire collection of everything that is bad about my trade there!!!

 

[shimmeringbottom]

Billy, what camp is this buffoonery happening at? I want to make sure that it is not on my areas of choice as it sounds like you have the entire collection of everything that is bad about my trade there!!!

I resign from TG17 effective immediately!

 

[busby1971]

Different thing

Different thing

We had a similar situation at a secret northern base last Christmas when some throbber (straight bar rank) thought we should put leave in to cover our shift standown days over the grant.

Being the fine, upstanding SNCO I am, ever mindful of the need to develop and guide the young orifices I decided to tell him to ram his manning up his hoop before making a beeline for the Sqn Cdr's office. Strangely enough he saw things my way...

I would go for the leave pass then get so drunk that I forgot I was on duty! Directorate of Legal would have a field day trying to get that charge to stick!

Sorry TG17 but this would not seem to be an isolated incident of incompetence amongst your bretheren. I am sure that many of you are keen and conciencious tradesmen but there are still a lot of fcuknuckles out there trying to make it hard for the rest of us!

In the old days Bank Hols and such like were only credited back if you were on on duty/working, so with the new scheme if you are not working then you need to submit a leave pass, for instance if your shift is 2 days 2 nights 4 off and the bank hol in on the four off then you should put in a leave pass, this removes the entitlement you have been given because you are not working on that day.

I agree with the OP on his matter but this one I don't.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

In the old days Bank Hols and such like were only credited back if you were on on duty/working, so with the new scheme if you are not working then you need to submit a leave pass, for instance if your shift is 2 days 2 nights 4 off and the bank hol in on the four off then you should put in a leave pass, this removes the entitlement you have been given because you are not working on that day.

I agree with the OP on his matter but this one I don't.

Busby, I can almost agree with the 4th day of standown being leave but if you break down the others as:

Day 1: sleeping off - however you have already worked a proportion of that day so it cannot be leave!

Day 2/3: Average non shift-worker's weekend

Day 4: Leave

I know some will say that shift workers only work half the year, blah, blah but the hourse worked exceed a day worker even without an early stack on a Friday. Day workers will probably get BHs/Christmas off where shift workers will just have to work to fit their shifts. I have often not been able to take Christmas Grant until February and have worked both Christmas and New Year if that is how the shifts fall.

What is apparent is that JPA and all the JSPs are catering for the day workers amongst us. That is possibly where confusion arises with the TG17 cnuts who are sent to try us! What it needs is for those in positions of influence to sit the Head Scribbly (or whatever grandiose title they give themselves this week) down and get a proper policy thrashed out that is to everybody's mutual benefit.

 

[Weebl]

In the old days Bank Hols and such like were only credited back if you were on on duty/working, so with the new scheme if you are not working then you need to submit a leave pass, for instance if your shift is 2 days 2 nights 4 off and the bank hol in on the four off then you should put in a leave pass, this removes the entitlement you have been given because you are not working on that day.

I agree with the OP on his matter but this one I don't.

At least at BZN, if you are a shiftie you lose all 8 BH days anyway because as shifties we are apparently not entitled to them.

Shifties simply ignore bank holidays and our admin staff deduct 8 days at source.

 

[busby1971]

It used to be written in the good old AP

It used to be written in the good old AP

Busby, I can almost agree with the 4th day of standown being leave but if you break down the others as:

Day 1: sleeping off - however you have already worked a proportion of that day so it cannot be leave!

Day 2/3: Average non shift-worker's weekend

Day 4: Leave

I know some will say that shift workers only work half the year, blah, blah but the hourse worked exceed a day worker even without an early stack on a Friday. Day workers will probably get BHs/Christmas off where shift workers will just have to work to fit their shifts. I have often not been able to take Christmas Grant until February and have worked both Christmas and New Year if that is how the shifts fall.

What is apparent is that JPA and all the JSPs are catering for the day workers amongst us. That is possibly where confusion arises with the TG17 cnuts who are sent to try us! What it needs is for those in positions of influence to sit the Head Scribbly (or whatever grandiose title they give themselves this week) down and get a proper policy thrashed out that is to everybody's mutual benefit.

In the good old days of APs and such like the rules about shifties and leave were written down, one about Bank Hols used to say if you are working you get it back if you are not you don't, this is off topic and probably not relevant in these JSP days.

 

[effinhell]

In the old days Bank Hols and such like were only credited back if you were on on duty/working, so with the new scheme if you are not working then you need to submit a leave pass, for instance if your shift is 2 days 2 nights 4 off and the bank hol in on the four off then you should put in a leave pass, this removes the entitlement you have been given because you are not working on that day.

I agree with the OP on his matter but this one I don't.

Only thing I can see in JSP 760 is at para 2.039 - 2.041 (plus 2.017), have a look and see if that is any help, available via airspace as honest I don't have the JSP at home.....

 

[billy bollox]

Sorted

Sorted

UPDATE:

Having spoken to the Stn Legal Dept. the issue is sorted. My lad is not to put in leave if he is on a Stand-by duty. Sqn Mgt is to re-educate said baffoon in Sqn AdminDT_Xtremez_30:

Result!!

 

[Mightierthan]

A good result. It's just a pity that so many people had to expend time and energy to achieve what should have been a common sense answer.

 

[busbyboy]

The Good fight

The Good fight

I can see where they are coming from re putting leave in en masse as many (mainly comissioned types) conveniently forget to put it in. I do a similar scheme on my Sqn, however before pressing the "submit" button, I liaise closely with my 2 FS IC Shifts who tell me exactly who will be on duty over a public holiday so we dont end up screwing anyone over.

If this throbber was introduced to the word "co-operation" with his fellow line managers, his life would be a whole lot easier!

Sometimes, we as a trade group really dont help ourselves....this attitude makes us take 2 steps back!

Shimmeringbottom, if you want to round up a "correction posse" count me in!!!

Mutty,

Very pleased to see that you are still fighting the good fight - keep it up old son!