Techies banging out at a rapid rate

[ady eflog]

There seems to be quite a few TG1 PVRing at the moment, I heard a figure of 350 this year mentioned, manning is down to 90% for the trade. all the promotion boards have ground to a halt as they cant promote people without leavi ng massive gaps. whats the answer?

 

[Past Engineering]

I know I have been out a while but did continue to closely work with the RAF until last year, but from my last years, what I saw and heard working alongside the RAF, I would suggest:

1. Treat people as professional trained adults.
2. Provide decent living and working conditions.
3. Give them up to date tools, equipment, spares and publications to enable them to do the job.
4. Stop cutting the numbers and increase the tasking expecting less people to do more work.
5. Stop watering the training down to get people to the front line Sqns and then expect those people to pick up the burden of training when you have not provided 1- 4.
6. Get people running the show who can actually run a **** up in a brewery.
7. Stop blaming the civvies for all your problems, most are ex RAF personnel and know as much or more and have a lot of experience to assist you if you require it and are on your side, and note I said most not all, as there are as many knobs on both sides.

Just a quick few thoughts from my experience.

 

[rocket scientist]

Is that the whole of TG1 or just armourers - for obvious reasons?

 

[ady eflog]

Is that the whole of TG1 or just armourers - for obvious reasons?

The whole of TG1. people seem to be pressing the 9 clicks to freedom on a daily basis.

 

[MattBombHead]

But for the proximity of my Pension, I'd be quite happy to bang out, as I feel The Service is a long way from what it was.

Every little thing is starting to be down to 'budgets'. Tools, publications, camps, personnel... You name it, theres a bean counter doing what they can to trim it.

And thats before we get in to 'management' of the whole affair... DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[rocket scientist]

To be fair, it will only take one of the following for me to pull the handle - in order of probability:

1. My boss to sufficiently **** me off
2. The offer of a decent civvy job on site
3. My unit to disband
4. Promotion & therefore posting

It's only money that stops me at the moment but I'm fast approaching the point where I could get away with stacking shelves.

 

[PraiseBacon]

The answer to that is, unfortunately, as painful as it is simple..

There is a budget for running the forces – which is being stretched too far. Therefore the only possible answers are:

• . Increase the budget; or
• . Reduce the size and complexity of the forces so that they operate within the budget

To do No 1 what we would all consider the right thing – but the finances are just not in place and neither is the political will .


Therefore we are left with no2 .

Some of that has started,

• e.g the selling off of 50 bases now deemed superfluous.
• Joint systems and processes where possible

But that is the pattern likely to continue. Firtly we need to define what we want form the forces – then look at the model to do it. Which could look something like:

• · Offensive capability : Grunts, attack helicopters, troop support helicopters (Puma etc) the army cooperation squadrons, the bomber squadrons all acting as an integrate unit – you could even throw the two new aircraft carriers in the mix here
• · Support capability – Why do all three services have sets of PandA clerks,, why have 3 sets of armourers (RAF , Navy and RAF), Medical staff, Suppliers etc – group them into one capability. Air Tankers, Timmys C-1-30’s etc all live in here. REME live here Why 3 schools of everything?
• · Defensive capability – whatever we use as rapiers now, force protection specialists, minesweepers, bring back SAR, QRA squadrons

All deployed as a UK forces structure – with fewer ranks..


Just added for debate , I would hate it – but I bet it has crossed some bean counters mind – and people are adaptable – esp if it gets appropriate funding!

 

[ktuludays]

I know I have been out a while but did continue to closely work with the RAF until last year, but from my last years, what I saw and heard working alongside the RAF, I would suggest:

1. Treat people as professional trained adults.
2. Provide decent living and working conditions.
3. Give them up to date tools, equipment, spares and publications to enable them to do the job.
4. Stop cutting the numbers and increase the tasking expecting less people to do more work.
5. Stop watering the training down to get people to the front line Sqns and then expect those people to pick up the burden of training when you have not provided 1- 4.
6. Get people running the show who can actually run a **** up in a brewery.
7. Stop blaming the civvies for all your problems, most are ex RAF personnel and know as much or more and have a lot of experience to assist you if you require it and are on your side, and note I said most not all, as there are as many knobs on both sides.

Just a quick few thoughts from my experience.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell. I left at 12 years for most of the reasons above. The bad outweighed the good by a long way and I couldn't see any light on the horizon. I've been out 4 years now and it doesn't appear to have improved from what I've heard.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

 

[Max Reheat]

Nobody stated the bleeding obvious yet. Civvy trains and airlines pay a lot more for our skills for less responsibility and bullshat. My suggestion would be to pay out on the pension at the 22 year point if the individual desires it, that would certainly have kept me in. Deployments are also becoming a financial burden with the decrease in allowances and increase in tour lengths.

 

[Witty_Banter]

The whole of TG1. people seem to be pressing the 9 clicks to freedom on a daily basis.

But for the proximity of my Pension, I'd be quite happy to bang out, as I feel The Service is a long way from what it was.

Every little thing is starting to be down to 'budgets'. Tools, publications, camps, personnel... You name it, theres a bean counter doing what they can to trim it.

And thats before we get in to 'management' of the whole affair... DT_Xtremez_35:

I had a chat with a top level Airship recently - apparently those that need to know have heard rumour that every man and his dog is pushing the button. They're also aware that it's because of pay / conditions / back to back dets etc... HOWEVER...'the stats' don't show exit rates as being any higher than normal, therefore it's all just rumour. What they don't see is how many people are clinging on for their 22 / pension, and will then be gone (there's an assumption that they can wave some sort of magic flag, and the experienced personnel will stick around if asked nicely).

 

[Max Reheat]

I had a chat with a top level Airship recently - apparently those that need to know have heard rumour that every man and his dog is pushing the button. They're also aware that it's because of pay / conditions / back to back dets etc... HOWEVER...'the stats' don't show exit rates as being any higher than normal, therefore it's all just rumour. What they don't see is how many people are clinging on for their 22 / pension, and will then be gone (there's an assumption that they can wave some sort of magic flag, and the experienced personnel will stick around if asked nicely).

Are they showing exit rates as a number or percentage? The same number as 10 years ago with significantly less people in the manning pool is a big difference

 

[Dazzy26]

I had a chat with a top level Airship recently - apparently those that need to know have heard rumour that every man and his dog is pushing the button. They're also aware that it's because of pay / conditions / back to back dets etc... HOWEVER...'the stats' don't show exit rates as being any higher than normal, therefore it's all just rumour. What they don't see is how many people are clinging on for their 22 / pension, and will then be gone (there's an assumption that they can wave some sort of magic flag, and the experienced personnel will stick around if asked nicely).

Sorry I don't agree. The stats are clearly there up to Aug in this year alone over 350 TG1 personal had ET'd which is a 3 fold increase compared to last year. The trade is 90% manned and falling and this info is not being hidden. A recent 3* level briefing stated the highest current priority was retention. He was quite clear they were aware of the problems, however he offered no solution!
Either the high up's aren't talking to each other or there are mixed responses.

 

[Flumpdaddy]

Reading various bits and pieces on the engineering branch and trades moss pages shows that the trade sponsors et al are well aware of the problems and would love to throw more money at us if they could but they can't. It doesn't help that when they do try to get something like the degree scheme going other people get involved at the last minute causing it to be delayed massively of not canned altogether.

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[rocket scientist]

Nobody stated the bleeding obvious yet. Civvy trains and airlines pay a lot more for our skills for less responsibility and bullshat.

That's not what I saw when working alongside BAe and it's getting worse at QinetiQ right now.

 

[ady eflog]

I had a chat with a top level Airship recently - apparently those that need to know have heard rumour that every man and his dog is pushing the button. They're also aware that it's because of pay / conditions / back to back dets etc... HOWEVER...'the stats' don't show exit rates as being any higher than normal, therefore it's all just rumour. What they don't see is how many people are clinging on for their 22 / pension, and will then be gone (there's an assumption that they can wave some sort of magic flag, and the experienced personnel will stick around if asked nicely).

Seeing a few responses that align with my thoughts ill give my 2 pence worth, I know the airships read this forum, its even quoted on various briefs i've had, so they need to wake up and listen to the lads on the coal front and not what the Sqn Ldr's and Wg Cdr's are telling them. People have had enough. The new pay scheme has flucked over the techie world yet again, " oh yeah its going to sort out the injustice of pay 2000" so many are trapped between old top level and the new structure so its not worth taking promotion if it doesnt suit. The choices from Manning on promotion to fill ****e postings is laughable, its not even a pay rise now! more and more are turning it down as its financially not worth taking it to live away from home doing a ****e job. Lads now join for the trade experience, they are doing 5 years getting genned up and leaving, those on the '05 pension are hanging in till the 22 yr point then leaving, those on the 75 are holding on till the end. There are jobs out there in the wider engineering world, if you want to stay and work for BAE thats your choice to stay in the fold, they know your're on pensions thats why they offer ****e pay. The stats only show the Airforce outflow, what they dont show is what trades are leaving, I'm sure the poor trade sponsor knows that TG1 is in a ****e state of affairs. They are even signing people on continuance to fill posts that nobody wants as we are that short, all the promotion boards have stopped early as they cant afford to promote any more people as it would leave gaping holes at the bottom.
Airships,
The best thing you could do is an idea that someone mentioned to the last big cheeser that visited us, pay people who are signed on past 22 their first EDP at the 22 year point if they so wished, that way people can get their mortgage started or reduced, it would take the financial burden off people and they might be happier to stick out or take that ****ty job instead of PVRing for less bullsh1t and a bit more happiness. oh and you would save money in the long run if they cashed in early.

 

[Billy Whizz]

I'm a year away my LOS 32 exit point so rang Manning to see what the options were - they didn't know what was going on (quote) and to just wait and see. Sorry, can't just hang around in case the promotion board finally starts up again or offers of further service may appear so actively looking for jobs. Those jobs paying a similar wage (if you take pension into account) and closer to home than my current location doing a very similar job. In a funny way, reaching my exit date could be just the boost I need...........

 

[rocket scientist]

Billy - there were a lot of JT's in the late 90s in the same position in the F3 hangar at Coningsby. They were coming to the end of 12/15 yrs service and they wanted to know what chances of promotion were. No communication from PMA so they all get ready to leave at the end of engagement and about 2 months before exit date most of them were offered their tapes. None of them took the offer so the RAF lost a lot of experience.

 

[ady eflog]

Billy - there were a lot of JT's in the late 90s in the same position in the F3 hangar at Coningsby. They were coming to the end of 12/15 yrs service and they wanted to know what chances of promotion were. No communication from PMA so they all get ready to leave at the end of engagement and about 2 months before exit date most of them were offered their tapes. None of them took the offer so the RAF lost a lot of experience.

There is a chief in our place already on 2 years continuance while they sorted out LOS 32, he is now in the position where he has applied for further continuance which he has been told he can do and is now going on gardening leave until the sort it out or he is out early next year. If they don't pull their finger out, he is another that will have sorted their life out while waiting for the answer.

 

[Billy Whizz]

There is a chief in our place already on 2 years continuance while they sorted out LOS 32, he is now in the position where he has applied for further continuance which he has been told he can do and is now going on gardening leave until the sort it out or he is out early next year. If they don't pull their finger out, he is another that will have sorted their life out while waiting for the answer.

It is now up to Manning to offer Further Service - you have to speak to Manning before you can apply (according to the Monthly Bulletins). TG1 CMs didn't know how many or who they'd be offering it to, the only info I got was that if it was offered I'd have to stay in Post.....

 

[Max Reheat]

That's not what I saw when working alongside BAe and it's getting worse at QinetiQ right now.

Both companies are military contracts I'm guessing. I'm earning £700 a month more as a spanner monkey than I did as a Chief, and that's not even on one of the better contracts on offer. Then I have pension on top of that. Why on earth would I want to stay in on 1% pay rises and stagnated increment rises with what's on offer for less responsibility?