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Trade Malpractices

I Look Like Kevin Costner

I Look Like Kevin Costner

Grand Prix fanatic..
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wgaf said:
I have always been led to believe that rules were for the guidance of the wise and obedience of fools!
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If that is being said by a senior non commisioned officer, then what hope have the youngsters got.. Rules get made usually for good reasons, especially in aircraft maintenance. True, I've used a leatherman when in the service, but only on Ops as a last resort, when time and lack of access to correct tooling effected that decision (and it was a civvy freighter anyway!)

I could use a leatherman everyday now.. But I don't because I use the correct tools to do what I'm doing.. They are all personal to me though cos I own them! I do wish the *******s that have nicked all the companies cordless collection would return them to stores!!
 
E

Eh? I'm an Armourer?

LAC
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Having seen AMMs come and go, they're mostly a good bunch, no better or worse than a freshly trained mechanic but lacking the trade training. As the current method is to train them as lineys and then bring them back for trade training they are naturally going to pick up both good and bad practices from OJT. Without going back to the old ways, perish the thought, it has to be down to the training school to take them back to hacking & bashing day 1, tools and the correct use of.

I admit to carrying a multitool in the past and still have a torch in my top pocket, but I've always been very careful about using them, probably as a result of having it instilled in me that it's a bad thing to do. I wouldn't let an AMM see me using uncontrolled tools.

Wandering off a bit, I remember being told during basic trade training that a screwdriver should only be used for purpose and not for prising lids off paint tins, but if I was to design a lever, perhaps with a flat end and a handle, it would look a lot like a GS :)
 
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Weebl

Flight Sergeant
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Rigga said:
"There is bending rules, and then there is 'bending rules'"

I have at times resorted to carrying personal torches because that was part of the job
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So you bent the rules? Personally I see far more further reaching consequences from using an unauthorised, uncontrolled tool than I see from using an authorised, controlled one to give something a tap into place.

If it is authorised and controlled and it breaks or you lose it, there are procedures in place. If you lose your personal torch and don't notice till the aircraft has taken off again you HAVE created a flight safety hazard.

In addition Rigga, you are out of date with the JAP's take on when and how a deviation may take place. Contingency Maintenance does not have to be declared.

The quote about the mission reason was made WRT not waiting for a 2 foot drift to be delivered, but deciding to use an extension for said purpose, please don't use my argument about the technical misuse of tools to make it sound as if I am advocating making up or ignoring MPs.
 
M

MrMasher

Somewhere else now!
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The JAP and 2R1 are regulations and policy. The clue is in the title. They aren't guidlines.
 
Rigga

Rigga

Licensed Aircraft Engineer
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Weebs,

"So you bent the rules?"

No, I didnt. The rules said I could use one and I was personally issued one. I was aircrew at the time. I just didn't like carrying it or the Duz-It-All - which is also an approved tool.

As expected, you have dug out almost irrelevant detail (I did say I'd left years ago) and you also seem to have missed the point entirely in your bid to make a clever remark.

Focus.
 
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F

FootTapper

Sergeant
652
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propersplitbrainme said:
wgaf said:
I have always been led to believe that rules were for the guidance of the wise and obedience of fools!
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I think aircraft engineering is one example of where this oft cited mantra doesn't really hold any water. Besides, the quote is often attributed to Douglas Bader who lost both his legs by, erm, disobeying rules.
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Wgaf - you missed THE key word "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools" - i.e. you're not a fool for following a rule, only ever for blindly following it.

PSB - Bader may have used the quote, but generally attributed to Solon, Lawmaker of Athens, 6th century BC.
 
O

Obi Wan

Sergeant
641
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I Look Like Kevin Costner said:
If that is being said by a senior non commisioned officer, then what hope have the youngsters got.. Rules get made usually for good reasons, especially in aircraft maintenance. True, I've used a leatherman when in the service, but only on Ops as a last resort, when time and lack of access to correct tooling effected that decision (and it was a civvy freighter anyway!)

I could use a leatherman everyday now.. But I don't because I use the correct tools to do what I'm doing.. They are all personal to me though cos I own them! I do wish the *******s that have nicked all the companies cordless collection would return them to stores!!
Click to expand...

Ahhh Correct tools for the job then !!!!! :PDT_Xtremez_34:
 
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wgaf

Guest
I am totally fukked of with civvies coming on the goat telling the RAF how sh1t our systems are and how great their civilians systems are. I've worked with civvies several times in my time in the RAF and without exception I can say that their tool control and engineering standards are nothing short of shocking and far below the standards I would expect of an LAC straight from Cosford.
Here's a novel thought for you civvies, instead of worrying about the RAFs standards sort your own sh1t out. wankers!
 
I Look Like Kevin Costner

I Look Like Kevin Costner

Grand Prix fanatic..
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wgaf said:
I am totally fukked of with civvies coming on the goat telling the RAF how sh1t our systems are and how great their civilians systems are. I've worked with civvies several times in my time in the RAF and without exception I can say that their tool control and engineering standards are nothing short of shocking and far below the standards I would expect of an LAC straight from Cosford.
Here's a novel thought for you civvies, instead of worrying about the RAFs standards sort your own sh1t out. wankers!
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Ha, ha, ha!! My tool control is as good as it ever was in the mob and I cannot remember the number of times that a whole day of production was lost in second line sheds or sorties delayed because people lost tools, hadn't tagged them and were not man up to doing it! You have seen the civvy contractors that other civvy firms blow out because they are useless.:PDT_Xtremez_30:
 
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wgaf

Guest
I Look Like Kevin Costner said:
Ha, ha, ha!! My tool control is as good as it ever was in the mob and I cannot remember the number of times that a whole day of production was lost in second line sheds or sorties delayed because people lost tools, hadn't tagged them and were not man up to doing it! You have seen the civvy contractors that other civvy firms blow out because they are useless.:PDT_Xtremez_30:
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Bollox! Most just haven't got the cahoonas to own up and would rather just go out and buy a new tool! wankers!
 
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Weebl

Flight Sergeant
1,895
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Rigga said:
Weebs,

"So you bent the rules?"

No, I didnt. The rules said I could use one and I was personally issued one. I was aircrew at the time. I just didn't like carrying it or the Duz-It-All - which is also an approved tool.

As expected, you have dug out almost irrelevant detail (I did say I'd left years ago) and you also seem to have missed the point entirely in your bid to make a clever remark.

Focus.
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Focus on what?

You said you left, you said you have in the past used a, and I quote 'personal' torch. Which is different from an 'issue' torch. The fact you have now decided to state it was in fact issue, changes the matter, that is hardly my fault though?

You are using my arguments to supposedly show how the RAF is rubbish because we all make up our own MPs and you have quoted my arguments to support yours. I have at no point raised an argument about that, but have been talking tool control and the technical misuse of tools.

You have however been factually incorrect when you stated the rules about deviation and contingency maintenance in the RAF, which is what your argument is about.

I suggest, if you want to talk Maintenance Standards then you don't pull in quotes made by people arguing the points made at the start of this thread about a different matter.

Is that focussed and clever enough for you?
 
Tin basher

Tin basher

Knackered Old ****
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wgaf said:
Bollox! Most just haven't got the cahoonas to own up and would rather just go out and buy a new tool! wankers!
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Wot he said ^^^^^^^^^^^. There are those who would buy another one and stay stum! Your average RAF bod hasn't got that option what with tool etching, tool kit colour codes and such like, plus of course they wouldn't have a clue where to buy them at civvy rates.:PDT_Xtremez_14:
 
S

Shugster

Warrant Officer
3,702
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I think we tend to stretch the rules based on the urgency of a job and the resources available. I know we shouldn't but we all do it in some form or other.

If a leatherman gets a jet / Herc flying that has to be somewhere urgently, (ie. Close air support / Medivac where lives are in danger), then let it go.

But in all other, "normal", day to day work it should all be by the book.

Just a humble Ex riggers' opinion. :PDT_Xtremez_26:
 
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