administrative discharge

[Kelz]

If this is in the wrong place i apologize, am still new here.
I was wondering if anyone could help or offer advice.
My husband is facing administrative discharge for poor attitude to fitness well thats how its written up on the discharge form except he doesnt have a poor attitude hes in the gym most day and trained over xmas leave.
Hes fit enough but has a mental block with the bleep test, they are booting him out because he is unable to pass the bleep test but he can do everything else and he can run but the turns mess him up.
Is there anyway we can fight this?
Any help will be gratefully received, many thanks x

 

[Mag2grid]

Kelz

The only alternative to the bleep test is now the Rockport Walk test, but there needs to be a medical/age related reason why your other half would undertake this test rather then the MSFT.

While they both essentially test the same thing (VO2 Max) has he consider approaching the PEd flt asking to do the Rockport test? From my (limited I will admit) point of view if he can smash that test it proves he doesnt have a bad attitude to fitness.

Equally I assume this would have been going on for a while? If so then the PEd Flt should have held a record of the assistance he has been given ref remedial training/advice etc. If there is an improvement shown then he might stand a chance.

He will get the oppertunity to request an interview with the Authorising Officer who will make the ulitmate decision to put forward his case (I will be honest I am not sure who this will be most likely stn cdr or trade sponsor). If he is armed with all this gen then it will stand him in good stead I would think.

Again my limited 2pence worth, but currently going through the 1027 procedure myself I am aware of the stages its going to go through.

M2G

 

[beowulf]

Can he not speak to the PEd flt and see if they have records of him swiping into the gym? I assume that swipey thing is not just to open the door and that there is an actual log of cards being used but I am prepared to be flamed for naivety.

Being an auggie I have very limited experience as well but if he has got to this stage I imagine he has had [many] chats with his line mgt about this issue? If so surely at some point he has raised all of this with them? Have none of them accompanied him to the gym? If so a simple 2.4km on the treadmill should show them if he is generally fit without it being "official" (you know, just as supporting evidence in fighting his corner).

I also don't particularly like the beep test. The adrenaline of it being a pass/fail means that at the end of the second shuttle my mouth is always totally dry!

Is he totally scuffing it at a level 2 or is he just failing, like falling short by 1 or 2 lengths?

If I was fighting it I would at least ask someone to come to the gym at lunch, watch me bang out 2.4km and then ask them to review my performances on MSFT in conjunction with evidence of my attendance at the gym.

But sorry if this is something you have already explored.

 

[PTR Hoar]

I know of a few people being booted for the same thing but I have yet to hear of someone taking any formal legal action to defend themselves. I don't particularly want to give you any tea bar legal advice but as far as I'm aware "they" do look at it by a case by case situation.
I've been there before and it is very demoralising but tell him not to give up trying.

 

[Avery Hardoll]

I know of a few people being booted for the same thing but I have yet to hear of someone taking any formal legal action to defend themselves. .

Try Gilbert Blades. He was awsome a few years ago when the Elephant drivers were bang to rights over dodgy travel claims. Court Martial system in tatters after he started appealing to the Law Courts etc.
I think his daughter runs the firm now and I sense another 'Open Goal' in the making.

 

[Mag2grid]

Its Wilkin Chapman he works for (or a partner in). Not overly impressed with them, I rang them regarding my case and they havent taken any interest.

 

[monobrow]

As the Rockport Walk test is a more accurate calculation of your VO2 Max (what the beep test should measure), surely this could potentially be avoided by completing this test.

Not being given the chance to prove his fitness by a mental block when they have (are going to?? I'm not sure it's official yet?) introduced the Rockport Test could also go in his favour as there are other ways of proving he can meet the requirements without the beep test.

Found a page on it here -> http://health.drgily.com/walking-test-peak-aerobic-capacity.php

Your husband could try doing it outside of the testing regime and see what the result is. I don't know what would be considered a pass or fail but it may be a good indicator that the test is causing the fail and not the level of fitness.

There are also arguments that the fitness test levels for blokes / women are vastly different so if he passed the level for females that could be a case for unfair dismissal.

Where it goes next is up to you and your husband. You could ask a solicitor for some of his time and see what they think, or he could start actively looking for other employment, or he could chin down and push himself through it knowing his job is on the line.

 

[RAF Bird]

When you say a mental block??? I dont get it. Surely if he's fit enough knowing that he is going to lose his career is eough to push him over the line. He must of been able to pass it at one time so why all of a sudden can he mentally not pass it?

 

[PTR Hoar]

When you say a mental block??? I dont get it. Surely if he's fit enough knowing that he is going to lose his career is eough to push him over the line. He must of been able to pass it at one time so why all of a sudden can he mentally not pass it?

I used to get it into my head I was getting tired and kept telling myself I was going to fail and I did. Not by much but a fails a fail. I then tried it again outside of the "test" and I passed. Not only that I got a level clear of what I needed. Sometimes it is all in the head. After I passed it a few times outside the test I then went and did it properly knowing I could do it and I passed. Positive mental attitude and such the like

 

[Fairynotleckie]

There is a difference between attending the gym, and attending the gym and putting some effort in.

If the Gym isnt working for him, then why not take up some outdoor running.? A 3 mile route should see him good, with about 4 weeks of running 3x per week to get him into shape.

If he can run 3 miles without stopping, and under 25mins. That should see the beep test passed with ease.

The station gym here gives fatness test failures a little pedometer to wear through the days, I know one guy who took up road running, and they could not believe it when they downloaded it. I think in the end he was putting in 30miles per week.

FNL

 

[I`m Ron Burgundy?]

There is a difference between attending the gym, and attending the gym and putting some effort in.

If the Gym isnt working for him, then why not take up some outdoor running.? A 3 mile route should see him good, with about 4 weeks of running 3x per week to get him into shape.

If he can run 3 miles without stopping, and under 25mins. That should see the beep test passed with ease.
The station gym here gives fatness test failures a little pedometer to wear through the days, I know one guy who took up road running, and they could not believe it when they downloaded it. I think in the end he was putting in 30miles per week.

FNL

Hmmm I definatley find that running in a straight line without stopping and starting is a lot easier...though if you can do 8 min miles it should definately help. I did one on my ipod the other day and noticed that it is not so much, for me, the strain on joints when turning it's having to bring your body weight to a complete stop and back up to full speed straightaway that does me in. Imagine the relative strain on a car if you had to do that, it would be knackered! but, I digress.

 

[Harry B'Stard]

Kelz,

when I was struggling with my fitness earlier this year I had to work hard to get back on form. (I hasten to add... I'm not saying that your husband doesn't work hard in the gym!).

However, mentally the fitness test just seemed a little daunting and I almost resigned myself to struggling through 12 weeks of remedial.

But, I spoke to one of my PTI's who recommended that if I could complete one of the pre-set 20 minute sessions that I'd been given followed immediately by 3 minutes of running at a rate that was equivalent to my required level, then I could pass easily.

Well, come the four week point I thought what the hell and went for it... when I heard the tape player announce the level below that was required, I knew that I only had another two minutes of running at full pelt at the most, when a few days earlier I'd managed 3 minutes at full pelt.

This gave me a massive mental advantage just when I needed it (I was starting to feel that I couldn't do it!) and I passed it!

Ask your husband what level he requires and get the PTI's to tell him what the equivalent speed on the running machine is... if he can do the three minutes after a 20 minute session, it may give him that mental push.

Best of luck to him... and yourselfDT_Xtremez_30:

HTB

 

[br9mp81]

I've been out 20 years now,but as i was chasing jobs like Police or Fire when i finnished ,bleep test was very much the "in" thing,and i hated it.However on one test day i was told that someone somewhere had come to conculsion it was causing knee damage and a circuit type test was going to be the new rage,never seen it and can but think there are some ****ty knee caps out there now.

 

[CC]

Probably a bit late now but has he been to the SMC, if there is some sort of mental problem?

 

[tats]

I suffer a mental block when it comes to the bleep test and know a few others that do, I start to hyperventilate and it distracts me so I start to struggle and end up missing the line etc. I know I can pass and am fit enough but when it comes to the test I have problems, I know some who over think it and think themselves out of it

Anyway I noticed on your other thread that you're at Leuchars, I know kinloss have been running courses for people having psychological problems with the fitness test, I'm guessing they aren't happening down there otherwise he'd have been offered it maybe?

Hope you both find a solution

 

[Soon To Leave]

In civvy street, imposition of a regime that judges the effectiveness of an individual solely on a fitness test that favours those that can undertake an inflexible format, might be considered a form of constructive dismissal, particularly in the current climate. Whilst I applaud efforts to improve general levels of fitness I'm surprised the means of testing has not yet been legally challenged.

 

[Realist78]

In civvy street, imposition of a regime that judges the effectiveness of an individual solely on a fitness test that favours those that can undertake an inflexible format, might be considered a form of constructive dismissal, particularly in the current climate. Whilst I applaud efforts to improve general levels of fitness I'm surprised the means of testing has not yet been legally challenged.[/QUOTE]

Possibly because there has been so few people who have been kicked out.

 

[Born-northern]

If his reason for failure is purely a physcological barrier to the MSFT then simply pounding out in the gym (although beneficial) is the wrong answer. IMHO i dont believe individuals require any great level of fitness to pass the test but more a mind over matter attitude.
A simple trick i get some of my lads to use to overcome their fear is to have them do the test on a treadmill, start at level 8.5 (kph) then every minute increase the level by 0.5. Each minute is classed as a level on the bleep test and ideally (due to the lack of stopping and turning) you should aim for a couple of levels above that which is required. Surprisingly enough when the guys are hitting 3,4 or even 5 times over their requirement on the treadmill then a key is turned in their heads and they realise they can do the MSFT, or at least worry a little less about it. May not work for everyone, but every little helps.

 

[Soon To Leave]

In civvy street, imposition of a regime that judges the effectiveness of an individual solely on a fitness test that favours those that can undertake an inflexible format, might be considered a form of constructive dismissal, particularly in the current climate. Whilst I applaud efforts to improve general levels of fitness I'm surprised the means of testing has not yet been legally challenged.[/QUOTE]

Possibly because there has been so few people who have been kicked out.

But I do wonder how many have jumped before they were pushed!

 

[Sospan]

There are also a number of tips the PTIs should have given him.

1, Try to turn using different legs each turn. (forcus on the left or right wall of the gym if needed)

2, When you get to the line, slow down, reach out with one leg and touch it, that way you take a meter off each end, 18M instead of 20M.

3, Focus on getting to 10 shuttles short of the target, once there, grind out the last ten with everything you have.