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administrative discharge

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The Chf Clk said:
Fella, I turned 40 and dropped to level 6.1 (I think), 2 months later it went up to 8.3 (again I think). It's funny but the most people who come through P1 on MAA are the youngsters.
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That may be becuase the older (and wiser?) are downgraded.

I know things seem to change on a weekly basis, but is it required to state if someone hasn't taken the test due to being downgraded? Seems only fair if someone trying to pass it has to suffer a comment?
 
.....I left in 2006, joined the police and I only had to do 5.4....seems strange your lot are given a hard time.

Only have to get to 9.4 on ARV duties.

Dont miss the pressure of the test though :-)
 
Mug? said:
That may be becuase the older (and wiser?) are downgraded.

I know things seem to change on a weekly basis, but is it required to state if someone hasn't taken the test due to being downgraded? Seems only fair if someone trying to pass it has to suffer a comment?
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Mug, the last I heard was that it was mandatory to mention your FT result on a SJAR. One could, therefore, expect someone who has not taken it, due to a med downgrade, to have it mentioned on their SJAR, and I have read plenty that have.
 
The Chf Clk said:
Mug, the last I heard was that it was mandatory to mention your FT result on a SJAR. One could, therefore, expect someone who has not taken it, due to a med downgrade, to have it mentioned on their SJAR, and I have read plenty that have.
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It has certainly been mentioned on mine that I was downgraded but kept myself fit within my limitations. That to me would be the key phrase, if someone is downgraded but does naff all to stay fit then mention it in a negative manner - no matter what the injury the PTIs should be able to find an exercise regime for you.

I cannot do the MSFT due to serious knee surgery but I can do other things. Unfortunately I failed the bike test on heart-rate (although commons sense was applied as I was regularly cycling more than 100 miles a week at the time). I am taking the new Rockport Walk test this week and I am quite nervous about it - it is a true measure, heart-rate monitor worn, height and weight taken into account. Of the 3 people at my unit to have taken the test, none have passed! It is not the easy option that some may think. I would rather not have had my knee taken apart and carried on with the MSFT and playing the sport that I love for another 10 years!

Back to the OPs point, this unfortunately is the way of the forces nowadays. In a shrinking force the FT is going to be used as a stick to beat us with - no matter what the level/test it will have to be passed if you wish to stay in a job. In my experience I have found that the PTIs will help someone who wants to help themselves - they cannot wave a magic wand and someone passes, but if someone is genuinely putting in the effort they they should be helping them to pass.

Has he tried to run it with a mate who finds it easy to pass? Does he have the test on MP3 so he can train to do it on his own?
 
It's not manatory to mention your FT result on the appraisal, it is however manatory to mention attitude towards fitness. Someone who is unable to pass due to injury but has a positive attitude should not therefore be penalised. Chf Clk you may want to check the appraisals section on the Manning Website which has all the relevant info.

The fact that someone has failed to reach the required standard does not mean a negative attitude. Mental attitude can affect results in the test it's the same with any kind of exam/test if you think you cannot pass 9 times out of 10 you will fail.
 
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Legal ease

Legal ease

I think that a system that ties itself up with specific language and tries to justify the differences between men and women and then applying this to an appraisal system that can have dramatic effects on a career is just waiting for court case to go through.

Far too many people are down the med centre these days with injuries that they would have once carried but due to the presures and consequences of this system.

I would love to see the stats that say we are now a fitter bunch after 20 years of this system, I'm just guessing that they probably have swung the other ways, especially since this MAA and discharge action has started.

My own view is if you want to work for an employer then you do what that employer wants you to do, however, that employer should not ask you to do things that are unreasonable and applying an ever higher standard without an work related reason. I hear constructive dismissal and discrimination being banded about for the future.

For all those sports billies (who have yet to pick up an injury) then good on you, but the RAF does not need everyone to meet high standards of fitness and the averagely fit should be allowed to continue.
 
Fitness is a big thing nowadays in every walk of life. We as a race are getting lazy and fatter, so the powers that be will try and push fitness!!

I hear the Op fitness test maybe coming back as well. How will people cope with that?

As for mental block, I agree the younger ones seem to have it more than the olders...!!! Maybe scared of hard work???
 
keef31 said:
Fitness is a big thing nowadays in every walk of life. We as a race are getting lazy and fatter, so the powers that be will try and push fitness!!

I hear the Op fitness test maybe coming back as well. How will people cope with that?

As for mental block, I agree the younger ones seem to have it more than the olders...!!! Maybe scared of hard work???[/QUOTE]

Tell that to any techie who has done role knob head. Some can't pass the shuttles but we all passed the filling a sand bag bollox. Different types of people are required for different task. A one size fits all works when the goals are within reason. A 45+ year old bloke having to surpass a 17 year old girl isn't.

Plenty of people need a kick up the a5re but getting them to reach the targets of a racing snake only puts undue pressure on them. These people will never be racing snakes but does that mean they are ineffective and a drain on resources. No.

There should be compulsary PT for all, a run or circuits for example. Unfortunately this is the real world and this isn't always achievable, people have lives outside the RAF and when you walk out of that gate, work no longer matters. The work place can't always give you that time either.

Ultimately, I believe this all stems from the degeneration of the RAF as a whole. 20 Years ago you joined for the life style that came with the RAF, it was a career with comradarie you would struggle to find elsewhere. Now thanks to the errosion of anything fun related, it is a job. With that comes a lack care, you can get a job anywhere.
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Any way, this is miles off track from the OP's question. All I can suggest to pass, if he knows he can do it without the pressure, get a running buddy on the test day. I know many who have never passed but get great results from this.

As far as the discharge, I think legal advice is where you need to be depending on your situation. If he is later on in his career then he will lose a lot of money, the barrack room lawyers here will be of no use. If he is earlier on in his career then get job hunting and focus on moving on and if you still have the stomach for a scrap then seek legal advice anyway. A friend from Lyneham went the second way but was put off by the cost of taking action. Passing the test before any formalities are set in stone may negate a discharge. It will probably still negatively impact his career though as formal action will be in his file.
 
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Discharge will only happen if no improvement is made. 20percent is required each time and I believe that is in 3 months. That is something to aim for?? Small gains.


To quote "Ultimately, I believe this all stems from the degeneration of the RAF as a whole."
Have a look around at the size of the RAF, I mean the belly size!!! Go back a few years and there was never as many fat lazy buggers out there. Bet we would be all the first to moan when Ops come round more or other duties.
 
keef31 said:
Bet we would be all the first to moan when Ops come round more or other duties.
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At Lyneham on the line, 2 or 3 times a year isn't out of the norm and quite enjoyable but for the rubbish involved in getting there (CCS,IRT etc). Even though fitness has improved on the line, the turn around times haven't reduced. If any thing it has gotten worse for some, sumpy's inparticular. The ground runners who went on det with a FT fail now get down-graded to save thier neck. Who blames them, I don't. They were capable of the job previously, it's only the arbitary way the failures get treated that has changed.

The belly size you metion proves my point. 10,15 Years ago we had sport afternoons or you meet up after work for some footy then booze etc. Now the fun has gone, people go home and forget about work. They have little left to urge them to stay on camp. How busy is your camp this weekend. Why stay on the base just for sh1t beer that cost nearly as much as the locals. The snec's see what the RAF had, the juniors see what it has.

Its not all doom and gloom. You can still get a lot out of the RAF, socially, experience and education wise. But the lifestyle it once came with that pulled every one together is fast slipping away. Look at the Army, treated like sh1t but they love it, why? Its because they do everything together. Comradarie.
 
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woollymouse said:
It's not manatory to mention your FT result on the appraisal, it is however manatory to mention attitude towards fitness. Someone who is unable to pass due to injury but has a positive attitude should not therefore be penalised. Chf Clk you may want to check the appraisals section on the Manning Website which has all the relevant info.

The fact that someone has failed to reach the required standard does not mean a negative attitude. Mental attitude can affect results in the test it's the same with any kind of exam/test if you think you cannot pass 9 times out of 10 you will fail.
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Officially it does! If you do not show a 25% increase on your last attempt, you have a bad attitude to fitness! B*ll*cks I know but FACT!
 
woollymouse said:
It's not manatory to mention your FT result on the appraisal, it is however manatory to mention attitude towards fitness. Someone who is unable to pass due to injury but has a positive attitude should not therefore be penalised. Chf Clk you may want to check the appraisals section on the Manning Website which has all the relevant info.

The fact that someone has failed to reach the required standard does not mean a negative attitude. Mental attitude can affect results in the test it's the same with any kind of exam/test if you think you cannot pass 9 times out of 10 you will fail.
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I will check the website but if it's not changed then it will be. My Career Advisor tells me that it's mandatory to comment on your FT result, as briefed to him by Manning Appraisals.

At the end of the day, a positive attitude counts for nothing. If you fail the test 3 times on the trot, you're out, no matter what your attitude is.
 
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The Chf Clk said:
I will check the website but if it's not changed then it will be. My Career Advisor tells me that it's mandatory to comment on your FT result, as briefed to him by Manning Appraisals.

At the end of the day, a positive attitude counts for nothing. If you fail the test 3 times on the trot, you're out, no matter what your attitude is.[/QUOTE]

At the last quote on here is was 7 SACs who had been given the boot, note nobody on a pensionable engagement. Has anyone got the latest stats?
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The Chf Clk said:
I will check the website but if it's not changed then it will be. My Career Advisor tells me that it's mandatory to comment on your FT result, as briefed to him by Manning Appraisals.

At the end of the day, a positive attitude counts for nothing. If you fail the test 3 times on the trot, you're out, no matter what your attitude is.
Click to expand...

You only need to comment on a negative attitude to fitness. If you pass your FT then it need not be mentioned in your SJAR/OJAR.
 
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