administrative discharge

[Skeedledee]

You make some valid points, however you must take into account the average female physiology. The average female cannot compete physically with the average male in terms of physical strength and stamina. That is a biological fact. The fitness test standards are required to reflect this.Now you are to be commended on your attitude to your fitness and like you I take great satisfaction in passing my fitness test to the best of my abilities. But to put this into context, my partner is female 36years of age and could put most PTI's to shame on the bleep test, however she has a very slight physical build and struggles with pressups. Does this make her unfit? The simple answer is no!.

Also your comment about Stackers & Shineys holds no sway. I have seen plenty of so called unfit/unmotivated in otherwords fat female techies to last a lifetime.

After reading all the posts. There seems to be one common theme... Fellas having to do more on the fitness test than birds... The Fellas saying its unfair and the birds saying that is just the way it is...

So, here goes.....

I am a raf bird, I think its discusting that we have to do less than the fellas. Its embarrasing, we wanted equality etc etc. But when it comes down to it we argue the case about a fitness frickin test!!

How can you hold your head up in the gym when you bang out at level 6 (or whatever it is)... And, fellas that are older than you are carrying on??

All this male/female difference in fitness/stamina is absolute balls!! It is an excuse which fat unfit waafs use.... The only difference is your mental attitude!!

When I do my test. I make sure (self pride) that I carry on until, at least the first few blokes of my age have banged out. So, I have achieved the same as them.

You lassies (are you shinies and stackers) are an embarrasment to the the rest of us that take the test and equality seriously.

So, not all birds are in the same frame of mind... Please don't tar us all with the same brush..... Yes I am a techy!!

 

[justintime129]

The military isn't equal and I for one have never asked for it to be.....

We are living in a world of equality, sexual race gender etc and the RAF can't escape. The RAF seems more equal than many years ago and you are bearing the fruits of this. Same pay, years ago males got paid more, 11% x factor I think for men. No female pilots. The chance to stay in when you are pregnant and not be kicked out. The RAF had to pay out millions in compensation.

Equality between the sexes works both ways and the RAF need to realise this

 

[RAF Bird]

We are living in a world of equality, sexual race gender etc and the RAF can't escape. The RAF seems more equal than many years ago and you are bearing the fruits of this. Same pay, years ago males got paid more, 11% x factor I think for men. No female pilots. The chance to stay in when you are pregnant and not be kicked out. The RAF had to pay out millions in compensation.

Equality between the sexes works both ways and the RAF need to realise this

To a point it is equal... women cant serve in the RAF Regt.... we are not allowed to get the extra pay that comes with getting your para wings yet guys are. I'm pretty sure I could jump out of an aeroplane and do some yomping and I'd love the extra money but as a girl I'm not allowed to. Where's the equality in that?

 

[Climebear]

To a point it is equal... women cant serve in the RAF Regt.... we are not allowed to get the extra pay that comes with getting your para wings yet guys are. I'm pretty sure I could jump out of an aeroplane and do some yomping and I'd love the extra money but as a girl I'm not allowed to. Where's the equality in that?

Although women cannot serve in the RAF Regt the link to para pay is not so clear cut. There are other posts in the RAF that require para qaulification - these are in branches and trades that are open to females.

The other posts not open to females are Roman Catholic Padres

 

[justintime129]

To a point it is equal... women cant serve in the RAF Regt.... we are not allowed to get the extra pay that comes with getting your para wings yet guys are. I'm pretty sure I could jump out of an aeroplane and do some yomping and I'd love the extra money but as a girl I'm not allowed to. Where's the equality in that?

Ok I'll give you that but can't you see the inequality in the fitness test. I don't serve anymore and I work in an environment where I'm open to continuing physical assault on a daily basis. I wish the people I work with where all males but this isn't going to happen. Sometimes there could be only 1 or 2 males on shift, but give the females their due, the majority can dish it out with the best of them.

The RAF needs to change on Borg sides.

 

[RAF Bird]

Although women cannot serve in the RAF Regt the link to para pay is not so clear cut. There are other posts in the RAF that require para qaulification - these are in branches and trades that are open to females.

The other posts not open to females are Roman Catholic Padres

Sorry should have made myself clearer..... the trades may be open to females but the para slots are not. In my trade on TSW there are x amount of para slots which only boys can fill. Girls are still not allowed to fill para slots, yet the boys can gain extra pay because they can... you know what... good for them. Would I have considered doing the course had it been open to me? Course I would... hell it's more money. Did I whinge and moan that I couldn't? Nope didn't even give it a second thought. We all work hard... we all have families to support. We all get paid. That's the way that life is. At the end of the day I dont care if it bothers someone that I dont HAVE to do as many shuttles as them. (Not saying I dont just that I dont have to you understand) All I care about is going to work, passing my RAFFT, CCS and any other courses that are flung my way. Getting on with the people I work with, enjoying my job and earning a decent wage which roofs and feeds my boy. That's what matters to me.

 

[RAF Bird]

Ok I'll give you that but can't you see the inequality in the fitness test. NO I'm sorry I really cant. Read the VO Max studies. Our fitness test actually pushes us harder. I don't serve anymore and I work in an environment where I'm open to continuing physical assault on a daily basis. I wish the people I work with where all males but this isn't going to happen. Sometimes there could be only 1 or 2 males on shift, but give the females their due, the majority can dish it out with the best of them.

The RAF needs to change on Borg sides.

Think we'll just have to agree to disagree my friend. As I've just said, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter to me. I have as yet to meet someone who can do their job better or worse because of their RAFFT scores. I try not to be too worried in life what everyone else is up to with things like this as it really doesn't matter to me. We are all only working after all to earn a wage. I'd hate to think of a family losing their home struggling to feed their children because of a person whether it be a girl or a boy failed to run between two lines.

 

[justintime129]

Sorry should have made myself clearer..... the trades may be open to females but the para slots are not. In my trade on TSW there are x amount of para slots which only boys can fill. Girls are still not allowed to fill para slots, yet the boys can gain extra pay because they can... you know what... good for them. Would I have considered doing the course had it been open to me? Course I would... hell it's more money. Did I whinge and moan that I couldn't? Nope didn't even give it a second thought. We all work hard... we all have families to support. We all get paid. That's the way that life is. At the end of the day I dont care if it bothers someone that I dont HAVE to do as many shuttles as them. (Not saying I dont just that I dont have to you understand) All I care about is going to work, passing my RAFFT, CCS and any other courses that are flung my way. Getting on with the people I work with, enjoying my job and earning a decent wage which roofs and feeds my boy. That's what matters to me.

Isn't that what the op was getting at we all have families to look after and failing the FT could bring all this. Is it fair that someone who passed the test last year, who is now a year older has to go further than last year. If he can't then he's out on his arse. The human body can only go so far.

Ps
When I was serving lol you wouldn't have been near tsw, that's another door that's been open for you.

 

[RAF Bird]

Ps
When I was serving lol you wouldn't have been near tsw, that's another door that's been open for you.

Off TopicOff Topic Ha ha so true... and you know what I'm pleased they let girls on the wing now cos I loved almost every minute of my time there. I still believe though that there are some jobs girls shouldn't be doing like Regt/marines/infantry/SF..... but that's just me I'm sure Olliethingy who is after all the equality would easily sail through the breacon beacons. Perhaps she could attemp SFSG and let us know how she gets on. DT_Xtremez_42:DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[252]

Although women cannot serve in the RAF Regt the link to para pay is not so clear cut. There are other posts in the RAF that require para qaulification - these are in branches and trades that are open to females.

The other posts not open to females are Roman Catholic Padres

Air Radar never used to be open to females due to the microwave risk pottentialy causing birth defects,allthough us blokes ran the risk of sterility.

Can anybody tell me if this is the case with the new all singing all dancing combined Avionics trade?.

 

[T93]

Air Radar never used to be open to females due to the microwave risk pottentialy causing birth defects,allthough us blokes ran the risk of sterility.

Can anybody tell me if this is the case with the new all singing all dancing combined Avionics trade?.

*********

As far as I am aware the fairer sex are now working in the ground RADAR environment (potentially higher risks) so I would assume they are working in the Avionics arena.

 

[Tubby]

To a point it is equal... women cant serve in the RAF Regt.... we are not allowed to get the extra pay that comes with getting your para wings yet guys are. I'm pretty sure I could jump out of an aeroplane and do some yomping and I'd love the extra money but as a girl I'm not allowed to. Where's the equality in that?

RAF Reg, Para's et al don't do the bleep test. If lumpy jumpers were allowed in it would create untold issues in working out how to make it easier for you.

 

[RAF Bird]

RAF Reg, Para's et al don't do the bleep test. If lumpy jumpers were allowed in it would create untold issues in working out how to make it easier for you.

And it is true I have 2 lovely big lumps in my jumper with my nice DD's.

 

[Realist78]

And it is true I have 2 lovely big lumps in my jumper with my nice DD's.

As a self confessed t1t man, I concur!DT_Xtremez_34:

 

[Jaymac]

And it is true I have 2 lovely big lumps in my jumper with my nice DD's.

DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Sw EX Fairy]

Seems that the RAF want you guys now to be supermen and women

Just going eat my pie, as a ex Tec
Australian Army



Australian Army Physical Fitness Assessment (PFA) has the following requirements for recuits:

• 45 full sit-ups for both males and females
• 15 push-ups for males and 8 for females
• Beep test level 7.5 for both males and females

Once chosen, the bi-annual basic fitness requirements include the following tests. The requirements will vary between males and females, and age groups.

• 2.5 km run (men U/25 must do at least 11:18, women 13:30)
• push ups (men U/25 must do at least 40, women 21)
• sit ups (men and women U/25 must do at least 70)

data from Jan 2010​

Canadian Forces

The fitness test consists of a shuttle run, pushups, sit-ups and handgrip strength. Standards are based on age and gender. For example, a male under age 35 must do 19 pushups, while a woman under age 35 must do nine. Over 35 years of age, males must do 17 sit-ups, while females must do 12.

information retrieved from Canadian Press Online, Nov 2007​

US Army



The United States Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT) consists of the following three tests:

• 2-mile run,
• sit-ups
• push-ups

see more details about the APFT
New Zealand Army



To obtain a G1 pass, NZ Army personnel are required to pass the following tests:

• full Press Ups (30 for men, 15 for women)
• Curl Ups (60 for men, 55 for women)
• run of 2.4 kms (less than 10:00 mins for men, 11:50 for women)

There are graduating scales working progressively downwards depending upon your age to gain a lesser G2 pass.
French Foreign Legion



These are the fitness tests that are part of the recruitment and testing for the French Foreign Legion

• Beep Test (Test de Luc-Léger), need to reach at least level 7. This test replaced the 12 minute cooper run test.
• Pullups - perform at least 4 pullups
• Rope Climb - climb a 5 meter rope at least once
• Abdominal Test - need to do at least 40 situps

 

[olliepop]

Ha ha ha ha ha You've really brightened up my morning.... think that northern air has got to you a bit!

Please don't assume all WRAFs are fat and unfit as it is simply not true. I'll put that down to your inexperience, I weigh 8, 10... Fat?? Really? I ran further then I had to on my last RAFFT... does that make me unfit? I'm training about 4/5 times a week? Unfit?

So you can reach the same levels of fitness as the men you say yet you bang out once the first couple of them have?? If your fitness is at least the same as them why are you not able to go on and do as well as the super fit blokes?

No-one so far as I have read has mentioned stamina.... it's all about the genetic make-up. The fitness test is to show that a person has a required level of fitness to serve based on their age and gender. If it's all bollox then how do you compare professional runners? No female professional runners would compare to a professional male runner. I know we're not professional runners but it's all relative and our fitness test is based on the average person of our age. The military isn't equal and I for one have never asked for it to be.....

Off TopicOff Topic Ha ha so true... and you know what I'm pleased they let girls on the wing now cos I loved almost every minute of my time there. I still believe though that there are some jobs girls shouldn't be doing like Regt/marines/infantry/SF..... but that's just me I'm sure Olliethingy who is after all the equality would easily sail through the breacon beacons. Perhaps she could attemp SFSG and let us know how she gets on. DT_Xtremez_42:DT_Xtremez_30:

And it is true I have 2 lovely big lumps in my jumper with my nice DD's.

My God you talk out your arse!!

I said 'at least' until the blokes bang out.... Which is different to stopping when the first ones do. As for inexperience I think that 16 years is enough to make a decision.

As for the breacon beacons equality quote... WTF? You know cok all about, what I think with regards to equality within the RAF. Except for my thoughts on the fitness test so don't presume or attempt to be a smart arse!

The same as I dont make presumptions on your thoughts.... Or, I would presume after reading your posts that, you were a silly little girl who, loves herself and uses her thinner figure and big boobs to get on in life!!

Before you attempt to come back with you must be a fat waaf.... I am not but, I do not have to talk about my figure/looks/boyfriend to boost my ego!!

Why is it so, difficult to understand that the RAF fitness test is NOT equal?? The same as us not being able to serve in RAF Regt....

We get paid the same, we do the same jobs (apart from Regt), we get assessed the same so, why can't we be asked to do the same fitness wise?? When I went through basic training. We were all running the same distances cross country, lifting the same weight on the stretcher runs, yomping the same distance as the lads nobody complained then or played the 'but I am a girl card' so whats the difference now??

You say you are superfit etc etc so, what is the problem??

fishing for a bite

 

[Climebear]

Off Topic

Sorry should have made myself clearer..... the trades may be open to females but the para slots are not. In my trade on TSW there are x amount of para slots which only boys can fill. Girls are still not allowed to fill para slots...

It would be interesting to learn of the rational behind that decision (I don't expect that you will know this RAFBird; but, someone on here might). I have browsed through a significant number of JS, Army, and RAF policy documents on the intranet and can find no references to exclude women from parachute posts in either Combat Support or Combat Service Support roles.

The recent MOD review concluded that women should continue to be excluded:

from ground combat units where the primary role is to close with and kill the enemy. This meant that cap-badged posts in the Royal Marines general service; the Household Cavalry and Royal Armoured Corps; the Infantry; and the Royal Air Force Regiment remained closed to women.

It acknowledge that women had served in Combat Support and Combat Service Support roles including being attached to ground combat units:

The Service Chiefs’ view were clear that women are fundamental to the operational effectiveness of the UK Armed Forces, bringing talent and skills across the board, and in some areas they are better than men. Their capability in almost all areas is not in doubt, they win the highest decorations for valour, and demonstrate that they are capable of acting independently and with great initiative. But these situations are not those typical of the small tactical teams in the combat arms which are required deliberately to close with and kill the enemy.

The report is clear that the exclusion only applies to 'cap-badged' posts (in our case RAF Regt Gunner and Officer) not to any attachees. I can find no evidence of a Joint of Single-Service policy to exclude women from either 16 AA Bde or 3 Cdo Bde.

Off Topic

 

[Mongy Muppet]

How does any of this help the OP??????

 

[Realist78]

How does any of this help the OP??????

It wouldn't be the goat if everybody stayed on topic.DT_Xtremez_19: