administrative discharge

[Tubby]

Ahh and so we go round in circles again... thems poor boys that want equality cos they're all hard done by because they have to run more shuttles on the bleep test than us wrafs..... there may be racing snake girls out there who can get to the mens levels but as my fella is a racing snake in his 'Manly' right and can reach over level 13... I take it that this now means that all you men should adjust your lives and get yourselves as fit as him?? No thought not!!.... bless ya's I'll bet your Mummies didn't love you as much as your sisters either did they? DT_Xtremez_42:

For years the world has bent over backwards for the bra burning hormonal dykes, the ones that have complained about all men being bad b@stards. Saying we have oppressed woman from time begining.

The country has got t1ts like Harriot Harmen coming up with all sorts of stupid ideas to "help" women get an equal standing. If we had set up white male talk lobby groups to defend our ideals there would be outrage. You lot wanted equality but now you have it you pick and choose the best bits, "ooh I have a lumpy jumper, I can't run for that long"

Either accept equality or bugger off back to the kitchen. There are plenty of birds in the RAF who can out run blokes and reach impressive scores on the fitness test but that isn't the point. The point is the fitness test is to ensure we have adequate fitness to be able to do our jobs sufficiently and recover quickly.

If you have to reach a lower target, then regarless of physiological differences , by that vitue, you have to be carried more. The stronger fitter males can lift more and go further for longer, the energizer compared to tesco's own brand. So in my enviroment you would be a dead wieght before long, can't change a main wheel, push an a/c jack etc etc time after time. But we know this isn't the case for the best part of it, why? Because the difference between us isn't as great as the fitness test would have you believe.

 

[RAF Bird]

For years the world has bent over backwards for the bra burning hormonal dykes, the ones that have complained about all men being bad b@stards. Saying we have oppressed woman from time begining.

The country has got t1ts like Harriot Harmen coming up with all sorts of stupid ideas to "help" women get an equal standing. If we had set up white male talk lobby groups to defend our ideals there would be outrage. You lot wanted equality but now you have it you pick and choose the best bits, "ooh I have a lumpy jumper, I can't run for that long"

Either accept equality or bugger off back to the kitchen. There are plenty of birds in the RAF who can out run blokes and reach impressive scores on the fitness test but that isn't the point. The point is the fitness test is to ensure we have adequate fitness to be able to do our jobs sufficiently and recover quickly.

If you have to reach a lower target, then regarless of physiological differences , by that vitue, you have to be carried more. The stronger fitter males can lift more and go further for longer, the energizer compared to tesco's own brand. So in my enviroment you would be a dead wieght before long, can't change a main wheel, push an a/c jack etc etc time after time. But we know this isn't the case for the best part of it, why? Because the difference between us isn't as great as the fitness test would have you believe.

This great difference that you talk of is a whole 2 mins of running, whoa there eh? I'm a stacker so by trade have alot of computer work to do. I'm pretty good with computers and can type fast but one of the other lads can only type about a sixth as fast (we had a little competition one day and I managed to process 6 D states in the time he did 1). So effectively I can do an hour of his work in 10 mins. Does that mean I get a payrise as I can do my job faster? I mean come on we can all learn to type fast we (Log Ops Stackers) must spend at least 6 compulsory hours a day doing so and computers have been around for a long time now... probably as long as gyms...

When I was on the mighty wing we used to use pumps to pump fuel to the helichopters. They were nails and I struggled like hell but I did learn to start the cheeky little buggers.... there was however a lad there who AFAIK never did...... suppose though because he could run some extra shuttles than me he was better at his job and I should of popped off back to the kitchen leaving the choppers on the pad while he tried to start something that he simply couldnt get the hang of doing!

Don't know how I'll manage to sleep tonight for worry that someone can run the bleep test for 10 mins... hope that person can sleep well tonight knowing that my fella can run it for 14 and a half.

 

[justintime129]

This great difference that you talk of is a whole 2 mins of running, whoa there eh? I'm a stacker so by trade have alot of computer work to do. I'm pretty good with computers and can type fast but one of the other lads can only type about a sixth as fast (we had a little competition one day and I managed to process 6 D states in the time he did 1). So effectively I can do an hour of his work in 10 mins. Does that mean I get a payrise as I can do my job faster? I mean come on we can all learn to type fast we (Log Ops Stackers) must spend at least 6 compulsory hours a day doing so and computers have been around for a long time now... probably as long as gyms...

When I was on the mighty wing we used to use pumps to pump fuel to the helichopters. They were nails and I struggled like hell but I did learn to start the cheeky little buggers.... there was however a lad there who AFAIK never did...... suppose though because he could run some extra shuttles than me he was better at his job and I should of popped off back to the kitchen leaving the choppers on the pad while he tried to start something that he simply couldnt get the hang of doing!

Don't know how I'll manage to sleep tonight for worry that someone can run the bleep test for 10 mins... hope that person can sleep well tonight knowing that my fella can run it for 14 and a half.

Off topic

Spray diesel starter fuel up the exhaust, starts no problem. lol

 

[Soon To Leave]

Hopefully, those that excel at their primary job ARE rewarded with promotion. (I'm not niave enough to believe this is always the case but that's another thread)

 

[Tubby]

This great difference that you talk of is a whole 2 mins of running, whoa there eh?

Don't know how I'll manage to sleep tonight for worry that someone can run the bleep test for 10 mins... hope that person can sleep well tonight knowing that my fella can run it for 14 and a half.

Seem to be living on your fella's glory there my dear. Mega matlow's have a very tough and enduring job, just as the para's, infantry etc etc. The fitness test just doesn't cut it for them.

If it "a whole 2 mins" more. then why can't you lot do it, because it a fair old difference. But it a bar that the birds reach easier than men. Same pay then same targets. We can all be judged on an equal footing then for our primary role.

 

[RAF Bird]

Seem to be living on your fella's glory there my dear. Mega matlow's have a very tough and enduring job, just as the para's, infantry etc etc. The fitness test just doesn't cut it for them.

If it "a whole 2 mins" more. then why can't you lot do it, because it a fair old difference. But it a bar that the birds reach easier than men. Same pay then same targets. We can all be judged on an equal footing then for our primary role.

In the same way that your dining out on some girls who have the ability to be super fit?? As we're all going to have to meet the same targets in our primary roll I will sleep easy tonight knowing that the 7 or 8 shuttles less that I do in my fitness test once every 6 months is more than made up for in the amount of work I process (like I say compared to the guy who is a computer biff) actually doing my job. Phew I feel so much better.

I might stick a gems in.... anyone who uses computers going for typing skills tests. Then once every month we can argue about how girls fingers are smaller and therefore find it easier to type quicker and the men shouldn't feel disadvantaged because of something that they are physically unable to change as it's in their genes.... silly? Oh yes... almost as silly as you are blinded!

 

[FOMz]

TG9 already does have 6 monthly trade standardisation checks to ensure people meet and maintain the required standard RAFburd so that blows that one out of the water; as for typing - the days of only burds having keyboard skills are well done. Some of the worst computer operators I know are female (well female and Sabotage - being Oirish he types with his fists and uses tippex on the screen....)

 

[Bignick]

As we're all going to have to meet the same targets in our primary roll I will sleep easy tonight knowing that the 7 or 8 shuttles less that I do in my fitness test once every 6 months is more than made up for in the amount of work I process (like I say compared to the guy who is a computer biff) actually doing my job. Phew I feel so much better.

Stop trivialising the difference RAFB, the actual difference in shuttles ranges between 20 - 29 shuttles dependent on the age group, and that ain't trivial.

The fact is, like it not, (and I DON'T like even though I comfortably make light blue) this is the standard the RAF deems they want. It isn't the speed you can type for stackers or how quick you can pull out an engine etc for engineers - it is the present fitness test and it's utterly unfair on many levels (not just the sex discrimination level - and it is sex discrimination).

My advice to the OP would be to try and get your man through the test by hook or by crook. Many posters have posted some good advice for achieving this, I wish you the very best of luck in this endeavour.

If this doesn't pan out then I would advise that he at least make the standard for Female personnel and then take legal advice when they try and discharge him, on sex discrimination grounds. There is already precedence in the Met Police.

IMO the fitness test level should be set against the standard required to complete your operational tasks. If that works out to be 5.0 for stackers or engineers then 5.0 it is for all. Likewise if needs to be 10.0 then 10.0 it will be ... for all.

Rant overDT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Soon To Leave]

IMO the fitness test level should be set against the standard required to complete your operational tasks. If that works out to be 5.0 for stackers or engineers then 5.0 it is for all. Likewise if needs to be 10.0 then 10.0 it will be ... for all.

The fitness test has little to do with operational tasks but more about remaining operational regardless of conditions including environment, heat and humidity. It was introduced to raise individual fitness levels to a level appropriate to age and gender therefore the number of shuttles, pressups and situps cannot be the same for all.

 

[252]

The fitness test has little to do with operational tasks but more about remaining operational regardless of conditions including environment, heat and humidity. It was introduced to raise individual fitness levels to a level appropriate to age and gender therefore the number of shuttles, pressups and situps cannot be the same for all.

If thats the case then RAF are accepting that a male and female of the same rank and trade and carrying out the same role can not be expected to be pushed to the same physical extremes in an operational enviroment.

What good is that?.

 

[Realist78]

The fitness test has little to do with operational tasks but more about remaining operational regardless of conditions including environment, heat and humidity. It was introduced to raise individual fitness levels to a level appropriate to age and gender therefore the number of shuttles, pressups and situps cannot be the same for all.

How many people have been RTUd from OOA for being unfit for duty due to their fitness level? I suspect few or none. People might (will) sweat their t1ts off in the heat but still get the job done.

 

[CC]

How many people have been RTUd from OOA for being unfit for duty due to their fitness level? I suspect few or none. People might (will) sweat their t1ts off in the heat but still get the job done.

Apologies if this has already been covered, but you don't have to have passed your fitness test to go OOA.

 

[Mug?]

Exactly so whats the point

Exactly so whats the point

Apologies if this has already been covered, but you don't have to have passed your fitness test to go OOA.

So why have a test/ standard?

Surely if the RAF send you to a hostile environment knowing you have failed to reach a required fitness standard then they are not meeting their duty of care? and knowingly putting peoples lives at stake?

If it doesn't really matter then how can they discharge someone for not meeting them?

I think this is what drives the 'attitude' admin action.

Constructive dismissal I think some people may call in.

Why not forget about it and put the focus onto something more important?

 

[Realist78]

How many people have been RTUd from OOA for being unfit for duty due to their fitness level? I suspect few or none. People might (will) sweat their t1ts off in the heat but still get the job done.

Apologies if this has already been covered, but you don't have to have passed your fitness test to go OOA.[/QUOTE]

I know that and that is my point. If you can send people OOA who are 'unfit' RAFFT and there are few if any RTUs attritutable to lack of fitness, then it highlights the RAFFT as total b0llox IMO.

 

[CC]

Mug, Realist78, I agree with you both. Why have a FT if you can still deploy after failing it. Mind you, it would be just another way for personnel to get out of their OOAs.

 

[PTR Hoar]

Mug, Realist78, I agree with you both. Why have a FT if you can still deploy after failing it. Mind you, it would be just another way for personnel to get out of their OOAs.

But the trouble is if you fail your FT now then if it get to the point of the discussion ie admin discharge I know I'd get myself downgraded to save my career and continue to feed my family. But what would happen if I got myself downgraded? No OOA. If anything the new system could make matters worse for turn around times

 

[olliepop]

After reading all the posts. There seems to be one common theme... Fellas having to do more on the fitness test than birds... The Fellas saying its unfair and the birds saying that is just the way it is...

So, here goes.....

I am a raf bird, I think its discusting that we have to do less than the fellas. Its embarrasing, we wanted equality etc etc. But when it comes down to it we argue the case about a fitness frickin test!!

How can you hold your head up in the gym when you bang out at level 6 (or whatever it is)... And, fellas that are older than you are carrying on??

All this male/female difference in fitness/stamina is absolute balls!! It is an excuse which fat unfit waafs use.... The only difference is your mental attitude!!

When I do my test. I make sure (self pride) that I carry on until, at least the first few blokes of my age have banged out. So, I have achieved the same as them.

You lassies (are you shinies and stackers) are an embarrasment to the the rest of us that take the test and equality seriously.

So, not all birds are in the same frame of mind... Please don't tar us all with the same brush..... Yes I am a techy!!

 

[FOGHORN LEGHORN]

This must be a wind up. At the risk of receiving a 'cheers easy', how refreshing to hear a WRAF talking sense and not giving a long list of excuses and the old 'I can do my job so why can't I be fat?'. F*ck off it's the Air Force not the Fat force. You don't like the fitness test? Leave your ID at PSF and f*ck off. Levels should be the same regardless of sex as mentioned in the previous post IMO.

 

[TG3 TILL I DIE!!!!]

After reading all the posts. There seems to be one common theme... Fellas having to do more on the fitness test than birds... The Fellas saying its unfair and the birds saying that is just the way it is...

So, here goes.....

I am a raf bird, I think its discusting that we have to do less than the fellas. Its embarrasing, we wanted equality etc etc. But when it comes down to it we argue the case about a fitness frickin test!!

How can you hold your head up in the gym when you bang out at level 6 (or whatever it is)... And, fellas that are older than you are carrying on??

All this male/female difference in fitness/stamina is absolute balls!! It is an excuse which fat unfit waafs use.... The only difference is your mental attitude!!

When I do my test. I make sure (self pride) that I carry on until, at least the first few blokes of my age have banged out. So, I have achieved the same as them.

You lassies (are you shinies and stackers) are an embarrasment to the the rest of us that take the test and equality seriously.

So, not all birds are in the same frame of mind... Please don't tar us all with the same brush..... Yes I am a techy!!

Interesting to know if your SJAR is written/recieved with the same sexual equality angle!!!!

 

[RAF Bird]

After reading all the posts. There seems to be one common theme... Fellas having to do more on the fitness test than birds... The Fellas saying its unfair and the birds saying that is just the way it is...

So, here goes.....

I am a RAF bird, I think its disgusting that we have to do less than the fellas. Its embarrassing, we wanted equality etc etc. But when it comes down to it we argue the case about a fitness frickin test!!

How can you hold your head up in the gym when you bang out at level 6 (or whatever it is)... And, fellas that are older than you are carrying on??

All this male/female difference in fitness/stamina is absolute balls!! It is an excuse which fat unfit waafs use.... The only difference is your mental attitude!!

When I do my test. I make sure (self pride) that I carry on until, at least the first few blokes of my age have banged out. So, I have achieved the same as them.

You lassies (are you shinies and stackers) are an embarrassment to the the rest of us that take the test and equality seriously.

So, not all birds are in the same frame of mind... Please don't tar us all with the same brush..... Yes I am a techy!!

Ha ha ha ha ha You've really brightened up my morning.... think that northern air has got to you a bit!

Please don't assume all WRAFs are fat and unfit as it is simply not true. I'll put that down to your inexperience, I weigh 8, 10... Fat?? Really? I ran further then I had to on my last RAFFT... does that make me unfit? I'm training about 4/5 times a week? Unfit?

So you can reach the same levels of fitness as the men you say yet you bang out once the first couple of them have?? If your fitness is at least the same as them why are you not able to go on and do as well as the super fit blokes?

No-one so far as I have read has mentioned stamina.... it's all about the genetic make-up. The fitness test is to show that a person has a required level of fitness to serve based on their age and gender. If it's all bollox then how do you compare professional runners? No female professional runners would compare to a professional male runner. I know we're not professional runners but it's all relative and our fitness test is based on the average person of our age. The military isn't equal and I for one have never asked for it to be.....


Shame I'm not a speelin und grammer stickler could have had fun with that!