ATM Cpl to Sgt promotion moving fast....

[ady eflog]

Rumours at a secret east anglian flicknife base are that they have now released the first 50 off the board, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Raddaran]

Interesting?

Interesting?

I am 24 on the board and have not heard anything else. I was told that nothing would happen until after the 01 September.

 

[mild mannered janitor]

one of the lads at work rang today as he is number 53 ish and was told the first fifty have indeed been released.

 

[Raddaran]

one of the lads at work rang today as he is number 53 ish and was told the first fifty have indeed been released.

So tomorrow could be interesting!

 

[mild mannered janitor]

So tomorrow could be interesting!

depends if you believe what the people in the know (and i dont mean me) tell you, after too many bitter years i know i dont!!

 

[muttywhitedog]

So how come I know of three A Tech M Sgts who have been made redundant?

I thought we did not make people redundant to promote other people.

 

[mild mannered janitor]

So how come I know of three A Tech M Sgts who have been made redundant?

I thought we did not make people redundant to promote other people.

i know of a lot more than that, but hey thats a great idea get rid of most of the SNCO aircraft experience and dont promote anyone for a while (including those lower down) therefor diluting the skill set in the techie trades ? i mean its not like we are in the business if putting aircraft in the sky !

 

[ady eflog]

So how come I know of three A Tech M Sgts who have been made redundant?

I thought we did not make people redundant to promote other people.

Because its cheaper to promote people who arent on LOS 30 drawing rockstar wages and pensions

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

Then again.... No MMS/NLS at Kinloss... Less SNEC's needed. No Harrier force... Less SNEC's needed. 2 Tonka Sqn's disbanded.. Less SNEC's needed.
Don't assume that as some are made redunadant post open up, if it did that would leave big gaps at the bottom that won't be filled. The airforce is reducing in size that means a lower spread across all the ranks. Yes some are going but there are still lots staying in that need a post to fill who are being moved from Cottesmore, Kinloss or a tonka Sqn.

Why is this cheaper then Ady eflog ''Because its cheaper to promote people who arent on LOS 30 drawing rockstar wages and pensions''? Once you get promoted to SNEC you get offered Los30, not before... and by then your already on higher pay band and have acrued certain pension rights! And lets be honest if your getting paid the same as a chef, MT Driver and Shiny the days of Rock Star wages are long gone.

 

[mild mannered janitor]

And lets be honest if your getting paid the same as a chef, MT Driver and Shiny the days of Rock Star wages are long gone.

and the reason a lot of people are going ( including me ) it's the reason the air force has gone downhill.

 

[ady eflog]

They need to keep promotion flowing or you end up with massive gaps in experience, look back at the late 80's and 90's with 10yr gaps between promotion. We ended up in the sh11ty position where most SNECS were having to be signed on to continuence to keep them in making the situation even worse. There are hundreds of pi55ed off TG1 SAC(T) on outstanding assessments that are not getting promoted or signed on due to lack of promotion in an ever shrinking Airforce, I can't say what is hapening at Kinloss but just if its the same as Cott/Witt just about everyone that is not sick, lame or downgraded has left the Harrier force, (Apart from a small group that has been left behind to sort out the mess at Cott when they decide what they are doing with the fleet of Harriers.) Most Tonka lads will have been absorbed into the rest of the fleet, luckily at the same camps that they were disbanded from. Regardless of redundancies you need to keep the promotion wheels turning or the whole system fails.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

True they do.. I joined up in 88 as an A mech P and saw the cake and arse party's we've had up to now (don't expect this one to be any different). But the RAF is reducing in size which will mean less promotions are on the table. I'm sure there'll be some posts that open up but there are guys sitting in posts with nothing to do waiting on a job to appear. Some will get it but some will be dissapointed. You never know there could be a big rush of PVR's that'll open things up a bit.Mild manored janitor.... it was one of the reasons i applied for redundancy as well. The airships have lost the plot in an attempt to keep everyone happy and stop shiny's and chefs leaving. Right now none of them want to go as they can't get the money they are now outside.... You couldn't make it up.Ady eflog... you still didn't answer the question. Why is this cheaper ''Because its cheaper to promote people who arent on LOS 30 drawing rockstar wages and pensions''?

 

[muttywhitedog]

I really dont get it. The DIN for Tranche 1 stated that up to 120 A Tech M Sgts were to be made redundant. That means that the RAF had 120 too many SNCOs in that trade. As a guide, the whole of a fully manned Depth at Cottesmore had about 15 in that rank, a harrier sqn had about 6. Thats a lot of Depths and a lot of sqns to get to 120. Remember also that all the Sgts had already been dispersed from the sqns and Depth has about 3 left, so where these 120 suplus bods are is beyond me. Add to that the 50 that they are promoting and you are seriously telling me that there are 170 upcoming spaces for A Tech M Sgts....

Adey - Put yourself in the shoes of an A Tech M Sgt who has just been given his 12 months notice. You dont want to leave; your JPA position number is not being disestablished, and yet you are being forced out the door. You then discover that you will be replaced by a Cpl who is being promoted. That Cpl could have been selected for redundancy, but wasnt (that would have been an even cheaper option!) Would you be off to a solicitor quicker than you can say "where there's blame there's a claim"? Too bloody right you would!

Yes I agree that promotion is needed, but not to replace people who are being forced out.

 

[ady eflog]

I really dont get it. The DIN for Tranche 1 stated that up to 120 A Tech M Sgts were to be made redundant. That means that the RAF had 120 too many SNCOs in that trade. As a guide, the whole of a fully manned Depth at Cottesmore had about 15 in that rank, a harrier sqn had about 6. Thats a lot of Depths and a lot of sqns to get to 120. Remember also that all the Sgts had already been dispersed from the sqns and Depth has about 3 left, so where these 120 suplus bods are is beyond me. Add to that the 50 that they are promoting and you are seriously telling me that there are 170 upcoming spaces for A Tech M Sgts....

Adey - Put yourself in the shoes of an A Tech M Sgt who has just been given his 12 months notice. You dont want to leave; your JPA position number is not being disestablished, and yet you are being forced out the door. You then discover that you will be replaced by a Cpl who is being promoted. That Cpl could have been selected for redundancy, but wasnt (that would have been an even cheaper option!) Would you be off to a solicitor quicker than you can say "where there's blame there's a claim"? Too bloody right you would!

Yes I agree that promotion is needed, but not to replace people who are being forced out.

Apart from the fact that said Cpl would have made the board through having outstanding assessments therefore not a candidate that would have been selected for redundancy.
Historically everytime we have had a round of redundancies there has been a rush of promotion, this one is no exception, for legal reasons they will be posted in overbourne as I believe they cant replace someone who has been made redundant but are you telling me MWD that they will cope at places that have lost 3 or 4 SNCO's off a sqn without replacing them?

 

[ady eflog]

True they do.. I joined up in 88 as an A mech P and saw the cake and arse party's we've had up to now (don't expect this one to be any different). But the RAF is reducing in size which will mean less promotions are on the table. I'm sure there'll be some posts that open up but there are guys sitting in posts with nothing to do waiting on a job to appear. Some will get it but some will be dissapointed. You never know there could be a big rush of PVR's that'll open things up a bit.Mild manored janitor.... it was one of the reasons i applied for redundancy as well. The airships have lost the plot in an attempt to keep everyone happy and stop shiny's and chefs leaving. Right now none of them want to go as they can't get the money they are now outside.... You couldn't make it up.Ady eflog... you still didn't answer the question. Why is this cheaper ''Because its cheaper to promote people who arent on LOS 30 drawing rockstar wages and pensions''?

old snecs are on the top level of pay, their pensions cost more the longer they stay in, thats why most snecs are in the RAF! its not for the love of the job is it? if you promote a CPL he goes in level 2, there fore your saving 5K a year for starters, combine that with the fact they will no doubt be on the new pension scheme and your saving cash.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

old snecs are on the top level of pay, their pensions cost more the longer they stay in, thats why most snecs are in the RAF! its not for the love of the job is it? if you promote a CPL he goes in level 2, there fore your saving 5K a year for starters, combine that with the fact they will no doubt be on the new pension scheme and your saving cash.

What do you save.... Once you hit 22 years in the service the only way your pension goes up is on promotion (or if you add to it every month - I've never met anyone who does this). While they're in they aren't getting their pension so in theory making a financial loss!
To make a place for one of the Cpl's to get promoted you make a SNEC redundant - Pension of approx 8K a year, Gratuity + max commutation + 9 months tax free pay = a pay out of approx 75K (plus the pension to come each month). Or if they're time ex/PVR it's still a payout of approx 40K and their pension.

Not all Cpl's are on the new pension scheme so the 'savings' aren't as great as you'd think. The way you put it every time an 'old snec' reaches the top level of pay he should be culled from the system to make way for some youth.

There are still lots of SNEC's out there who were posted from Kinloss, cottesmore etc who didn't get redundancy. I know of a fair few who are at Benson who don't really have a post but are shadowing other guys and not doing much. Why promote someone when there's a ready made replacement sat there waiting.

 

[ady eflog]

There are still lots of SNEC's out there who were posted from Kinloss, cottesmore etc who didn't get redundancy. I know of a fair few who are at Benson who don't really have a post but are shadowing other guys and not doing much. Why promote someone when there's a ready made replacement sat there waiting.

I sat at Wittering on Holding Wing for the best part of 6 months painting fences, force development and doing charity work, waiting for the gaps to appear post 1st September, I see your point but you need to keep promoting people even when in decline or you end up in sh1t creek paddle store again with 10 years between promotions, there are a hell of a lot of SAC(T) out there that are not getting signed on to 15yrs and are sweating on promotion to keep a job.

 

[ady eflog]

What do you save.... Once you hit 22 years in the service the only way your pension goes up is on promotion (or if you add to it every month - I've never met anyone who does this). While they're in they aren't getting their pension so in theory making a financial loss! WRONG
A quick dabble at the pension calculator, a SNCO leaving after 22 gets 9k pension and 20k in hand, a SNCO that stays in till 55 gets 16k pension and 48kin hand. thats why they got the boot, and thats probably why they stopped continuence.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Lump sum should = 3 x pension, so how can someone get £9K pa and a £20K lump sum? Also, Sgts leave at LOS 30, not age 55.

Have another dabble and this time come up with a Sgt who leaves at 22 and a Sgt who leaves at LOS 30, rather than figures that are not even close to being correct. You'll find that the difference isnt that great.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I make it £10509 annually/£31527 gratuity for 22 years or £13444 annually/£40332 gratuity for 30 years (AFPS 75). That's a 28% increase for 8 years additional service. Only you can decide whether the difference makes the wait worthwhile.