Dave-exfairy
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grumpyoldb
Guest
On reflection, I think this should not have been discussed in a thread about football fans. It should have been in a thread about manchester city councils inability to organise a p!ss up in a brewery, 'cos that's what it was.
Lot's of footy fans, lots of beer. Men drink beer, get silly, p!ss it back out again, and we've all done it, mostly without the violence and vandalism.
No-one can really blame the rangers fans for this. They will only do what they are allowed to do.
Instead of allowing the footy fans into the city centre, where there was not a match, maybe the police should have kept them out. How, I don't really know.
Maybe they could have chanelled them to citys ground and tried to keep them in the area of the game. It's a huge stadium, but it pale's in relation to the size of the huge car parks, which are concreted, securely fenced, and floodlit.
The screens could have been erected there, and facilitys provided.
Will our leaders EVER learn???
I think not.
Lot's of footy fans, lots of beer. Men drink beer, get silly, p!ss it back out again, and we've all done it, mostly without the violence and vandalism.
No-one can really blame the rangers fans for this. They will only do what they are allowed to do.
Instead of allowing the footy fans into the city centre, where there was not a match, maybe the police should have kept them out. How, I don't really know.
Maybe they could have chanelled them to citys ground and tried to keep them in the area of the game. It's a huge stadium, but it pale's in relation to the size of the huge car parks, which are concreted, securely fenced, and floodlit.
The screens could have been erected there, and facilitys provided.
Will our leaders EVER learn???
I think not.
Deleted by sausage2. Keep on topic, if you want an argument start a new thread in Fight Club.
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gemarriott
Guest
After reading this thread from top to bottom I am afraid you are way out of order. I can see no evidence of abuse of mod powers, and therefore your attempts to warn members in public are out of order. Leave the modding to the mods
If you have a problem with the way your posts are being moderated complain to the mod team either by PM or the report post function. There is no need to escalate things in public.
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Albert Park
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We are discussing this as if it's an isolated incident but sadly British clubs have a poor record of behaviour at major european games going back decades. How many times have we seen riot police with batons beating some sense into the idiotic minority that follow the bigger clubs, yes I know some foriegn forces aren't good at deciding who is causing trouble and who just happens to be there, but trouble and football have been together for years.
Even domestic league games are not immune from such morons. In my (much)younger days trouble was almost expected at away games. Our supporters coach was bricked with large rocks of sufficient size to break the windows, the hot heads got off and a mini war broke out in the club car park. (13 year old TB stayed on the bus) Where was this? That hot bed of football violence Port Vale FFS. Fans "persuaded" to get on the coach home after the match by policemen on horseback with batons and police dogs at an away game at Plymouth. A pitched battle with other supporters at a motorway service station, hell Coventry weren't even in the same league as us never mind being our opposition for the day. It's not new but for now it's NEWS for the red tops and it will be until some bimbo gets her jugs out or some similar world changing event occurs to take their minds off this topic.
Even domestic league games are not immune from such morons. In my (much)younger days trouble was almost expected at away games. Our supporters coach was bricked with large rocks of sufficient size to break the windows, the hot heads got off and a mini war broke out in the club car park. (13 year old TB stayed on the bus) Where was this? That hot bed of football violence Port Vale FFS. Fans "persuaded" to get on the coach home after the match by policemen on horseback with batons and police dogs at an away game at Plymouth. A pitched battle with other supporters at a motorway service station, hell Coventry weren't even in the same league as us never mind being our opposition for the day. It's not new but for now it's NEWS for the red tops and it will be until some bimbo gets her jugs out or some similar world changing event occurs to take their minds off this topic.
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Well said.
It is a real shame that the Utd fans that can't make Moscow have been made to suffer in their own hometown because a bunch of 'porridge gobblers' fooked up.::/:
The bill for the Manchester clean up should be sent to the Jock Assembly so that the people of Scotland can pay through their taxes and not the Manchester Council Tax payers!
DT_Xtremez_25:
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auchtermuchty
Guest
Frankly I'm surprised nobody saw this coming!
Away games are normally well behaved as the troublemakers cant get there due to passport restrictions - its kinda difficult to use that process for an away game where you dont use your passport!
Away games are normally well behaved as the troublemakers cant get there due to passport restrictions - its kinda difficult to use that process for an away game where you dont use your passport!
Not my club fella, speak for yourself.
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fergo
Guest
Ok, I think I will add my thoughts on this. As most of you will be aware I am massive Rangers fan, i was at the game on Wed and it wasn’t until I got into the car and heard the radio that I was aware of any trouble.
On the original question what chance of trouble in Moscow, I would say slimmer, it is difficult to get too financially and logistically and therefore trouble makers, known trouble makers, will find it difficult to travel. Also at around £8 for a beer probably less chance of people having enough pennies to get drunk. For too many people Manchester was too easy to get too and therefore people without any real affinity with RFC travelled for a part and to get drunk, and then things turned nasty.
I think we would all agree that it was a small minority that caused trouble on wed, not an excuse. Reports have said that anywhere between 100,000-200,000 fans were in madchester. Personally, i think mistakes were made by the planners etc
Their liberal drinking policy was not a good idea, again not an excuse. They totally underestimated the amount of fans that would travel the relatively short distance to "sample the atmosphere".
I am ashamed of the acts of the thugs and louts, but they were just a bunch, and a big bunch, of casuals. Rangers have played 19 European games this year, including, Montenegro, Serbia, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal and there was not one arrest. The problem was caused by people who are not associated in anyway to Rangers Football Club and who were drunk. I am devastated about all the bad press but it was deserved and undoes the work of true rangers fans who have been exceptional all year.
The videos we are seeing on the news are appalling and there is no excuse. But things should have been planned and organised better. And again I would emphasise that the people causing the trouble were in the vast minority and are not in anyway indicative of the Rangers support.
Off Topic I hope that you read this and take it in the right manner.
Rangers vs Celtic is not a derby game, like say Liverpool vs everton or spurs vs Arsenal. It is more than that and the bitterness and historey goes back to the reformation. To an outsider it probably just seems completely menatal, and even at times to me it does, but it is not just a simple city rivalry.
the only game in the world that comes close to it IMHO is Real vs Barca
The authorities in Manchester were IMHO totally unprepared for the influx of fans. As a Rangers fan i am appalled at the action of some people that were there. I think a lot has to do with poor planning and very liberal policies towards drinking. People saw a quick buck to be made IMO.
My sisters boyfriend was at one of the fanzones and as they left police were shaking their hands and offering commiserations.
Clearly at Piccadilly there was trouble, and as real rangers fans-not casuals- we are angry. really angry! They have tarnished our name.
Moreover, the facilities provided toilets etc were wholly inadequate to provide for 100,000+ fans
Yeah, no matter what the number I echo your sentiments. I am ashamed at the scenes been broadcast around the globe. But in some ways it was predictable, due to the lack of adequate planning and IMO way to liberal policy on booze etc.
I am angry as that is not the true rangers support. We have travelled far and wide this year with no troubles what so ever. It annoys me that the rest of Europe has seen us in this light.
I would again however emphasis that it was stills a minority out of anything between 100,000-200,000 fans.
Were there enough facilities provided for adequate disposal of waste? Is there not always a big clean up after major big screen events? World Cups etc
Were there adequate toilet facilities provided? Not at the fanzone I was at before the game, about 30 toilets for 30,000 (estimate fans)
Why should fans not travel to support their team or sample the atmosphere?
Manchester is a football city and I am sure as many fans as possible will travel to Moscow and have travelled to watch the city's teams previously.
I would like to apologise for the conduct of the minority, but again, we have travelled all through Europe this year without one bit of trouble and as a club are fighting to eradicate all problems to do with louts, bigotry, racism etc and have been very successful. The acts of some boozed up casuals is to be regretted
Is there not a major clean up after most big screen events, WC etc
or at Rock Concerts etc
Was there enough litter facilities provided! I was there, there wasnt!
Tht is a very good point. And me and my mates etc discussed this with dread over the last few weeks. manchester was open to everyone and anyone and this has caused massive anger and embarrasment.
On the original question what chance of trouble in Moscow, I would say slimmer, it is difficult to get too financially and logistically and therefore trouble makers, known trouble makers, will find it difficult to travel. Also at around £8 for a beer probably less chance of people having enough pennies to get drunk. For too many people Manchester was too easy to get too and therefore people without any real affinity with RFC travelled for a part and to get drunk, and then things turned nasty.
I think we would all agree that it was a small minority that caused trouble on wed, not an excuse. Reports have said that anywhere between 100,000-200,000 fans were in madchester. Personally, i think mistakes were made by the planners etc
Their liberal drinking policy was not a good idea, again not an excuse. They totally underestimated the amount of fans that would travel the relatively short distance to "sample the atmosphere".
I am ashamed of the acts of the thugs and louts, but they were just a bunch, and a big bunch, of casuals. Rangers have played 19 European games this year, including, Montenegro, Serbia, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Portugal and there was not one arrest. The problem was caused by people who are not associated in anyway to Rangers Football Club and who were drunk. I am devastated about all the bad press but it was deserved and undoes the work of true rangers fans who have been exceptional all year.
The videos we are seeing on the news are appalling and there is no excuse. But things should have been planned and organised better. And again I would emphasise that the people causing the trouble were in the vast minority and are not in anyway indicative of the Rangers support.
Off Topic I hope that you read this and take it in the right manner.
Rangers vs Celtic is not a derby game, like say Liverpool vs everton or spurs vs Arsenal. It is more than that and the bitterness and historey goes back to the reformation. To an outsider it probably just seems completely menatal, and even at times to me it does, but it is not just a simple city rivalry.
the only game in the world that comes close to it IMHO is Real vs Barca
The authorities in Manchester were IMHO totally unprepared for the influx of fans. As a Rangers fan i am appalled at the action of some people that were there. I think a lot has to do with poor planning and very liberal policies towards drinking. People saw a quick buck to be made IMO.
My sisters boyfriend was at one of the fanzones and as they left police were shaking their hands and offering commiserations.
Clearly at Piccadilly there was trouble, and as real rangers fans-not casuals- we are angry. really angry! They have tarnished our name.
Moreover, the facilities provided toilets etc were wholly inadequate to provide for 100,000+ fans
Yeah, no matter what the number I echo your sentiments. I am ashamed at the scenes been broadcast around the globe. But in some ways it was predictable, due to the lack of adequate planning and IMO way to liberal policy on booze etc.
I am angry as that is not the true rangers support. We have travelled far and wide this year with no troubles what so ever. It annoys me that the rest of Europe has seen us in this light.
I would again however emphasis that it was stills a minority out of anything between 100,000-200,000 fans.
Were there enough facilities provided for adequate disposal of waste? Is there not always a big clean up after major big screen events? World Cups etc
Were there adequate toilet facilities provided? Not at the fanzone I was at before the game, about 30 toilets for 30,000 (estimate fans)
Why should fans not travel to support their team or sample the atmosphere?
Manchester is a football city and I am sure as many fans as possible will travel to Moscow and have travelled to watch the city's teams previously.
I would like to apologise for the conduct of the minority, but again, we have travelled all through Europe this year without one bit of trouble and as a club are fighting to eradicate all problems to do with louts, bigotry, racism etc and have been very successful. The acts of some boozed up casuals is to be regretted
Is there not a major clean up after most big screen events, WC etc
or at Rock Concerts etc
Was there enough litter facilities provided! I was there, there wasnt!
Tht is a very good point. And me and my mates etc discussed this with dread over the last few weeks. manchester was open to everyone and anyone and this has caused massive anger and embarrasment.
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fergo,
I do understand where you are coming from, or at least understand to some extent what you are trying to get across.
I must admit I follow the Rugby more (coming from the Borders, its natural...Jedburgh actually) However I have been to a few of the old firm games (always at Ibrox I hasten to add) & even more Edinburgh derbys.
I do understand the history behind it all. You could say I come from a Pres/Protestant background & I have served in the past in NI (Bishops) were even my Surname got me into trouble in the wrong place once & on the other side, it is the only place that (not only I) were accosted in a lodge for not standing up for the National Anthem by the loyalist boys.
As ever, my only gripe with both Celtic&Rangers is that they (to me) do not feel like Scottish clubs, I do not like the unfurling of the UJ/RHG/Tricolour..what is wrong with the Saltire, or what is wrong with singing Scotland the Brave and/or Flower of Scotland and not some loyalist/nationalist songs.
Apologies Fergo, I went off topic with a rant there.
As already mentioned I do know where you are coming from...even down to the collecting tins...esp Hope St.
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grumpyoldb
Guest
In all fairness to everyone.
I think everything has been said, that needs to be said on this thread.
I think everything has been said, that needs to be said on this thread.
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fergo
Guest
Appreciated. I have put a similar post on the Rangers thread. not power posting!
The West of Scotland is a goldfish bowl and it is not always pretty. I think a lot has improved over recent years.
Im Scottish, but i have a British identity and the vast majority of rangers fans feel the same-i think. I can appreciate that as a passionate Scot why you are dismayed by the UJ and the tricolour.
Personally, the tricolour really gets to me but then i see things through blue spectacles.
Celtic see themseleves as a Republican/Irish/Catholic/ club and Rangers FANS see Rangers as a unionist/Prod/Birtish club. And they happen to be on opposite sides of a City. But as you are ware the rivalrty etc goes very deep.
think we have gone totally off topic
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fergo
Guest
I can appreciate your point of view but i would really like to kow if you think there were adequete planning and provisions made for the supporters. And why you think they shouldnt have been there?
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grumpyoldb
Guest
Without doubt there wasn't anywhere near the planning or facilities required, but there again, the sort of numbers arriving were not expected, at least according to local officials.
What has annoyed most mancunians, is that our city, our work places, our shops, restaurants, offices and all the other facilities which WE need on a daily basis, were completely off limits to us. All those company's have lost millions of pounds because customers, and staff were unable to access them.
Public transport was stopped. 10's of thousands of local people had to try to run the gauntlet of drunken footy fans on their way home on foot as there were no buses or trams.
Footy fans do not belong in the city centre. The match was not being played in the city centre, and I don't want to hear any more bo££ocks about fans wanting to soak up the atmosphere. The atmosphere was miles away at eastlands where the game was being played.
They came to the city centre for the booze, and a p!ss up, and that's what they did.
What the council should have done, was make it a "dry city" for 48 hours.
DT_Xtremez_31:
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fergo
Guest
Without doubt there wasn't anywhere near the planning or facilities required, but there again, the sort of numbers arriving were not expected, at least according to local officials.
What has annoyed most mancunians, is that our city, our work places, our shops, restaurants, offices and all the other facilities which WE need on a daily basis, were completely off limits to us. All those company's have lost millions of pounds because customers, and staff were unable to access them.
Public transport was stopped. 10's of thousands of local people had to try to run the gauntlet of drunken footy fans on their way home on foot as there were no buses or trams.
Footy fans do not belong in the city centre. The match was not being played in the city centre, and I don't want to hear any more bo££ocks about fans wanting to soak up the atmosphere. The atmosphere was miles away at eastlands where the game was being played.
They came to the city centre for the booze, and a p!ss up, and that's what they did.
What the council should have done, was make it a "dry city" for 48 hours.
Sorry complete bollocks! The fanszones were set up in the city centre! Wre we supposed to go and stand about outside the ground if we didn’t have tickets?!
When they eventually realised that fans were going to come in numbers, something that was abundantly clear 2 weeks ago, fanzones were set up.
Are you telling me that people that didn’t have tickets weren’t to come? Come on? Loads of people follow their clubs abroad in Europe, some with tickets and some without.
For the WC etc there is quite often similar sort of events, big screens and such.
The Uefa Cup final was in Glasgow last year and not too long ago we hosted CL final.
Yeah, there was some disruption but it brought millions for the economy. The centre of town was buzzing.
The drinking laws in England are far more liberal that in Scotland (ban on public drinking), and you cannot drink at football grounds at all. Opening bars at 10am and allowing drinking in the fanzones was a massive mistake. We were shocked on Monday when we heard that the police were going to allow public drinking.
These sort of events need to be run better. My city has hosted two such finals with great success. Manchester hosted Commonwealth games not so long ago, they should have been prepared.
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