Fans behaviour at Major games

[Albert Park]

Its far more likely to be a simple matter of whether or not the individuals are pre-disposed towards being aggresive and getting more so when they've been drinking. You don't have to look further than our own town and city centres on a Friday or Saturday (or any other day) night to witness which kinds of folks are more likely to go out, get p1ssed and find a taxi home, and those who are likely to find a fight.

Top shout.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

It's called "mentality".
Why is it that footy fans, or the term which is used to describe them, lose it after a match?
Why can't they enjoy the game, win or lose, then just go home, just as most other sports fans do?

Footy fans always use the excuse that it was a minority who caused the trouble. It's a footy problem. end of.

You may think I'm splitting hairs here, but I'd say its a social problem that attaches itself to football due to the tribal mentality.
Aggressiveness in certain scoial groups is a social issue.
Becoming disorderly having gotten pished is a social issue.
The sort of people who are likely to do both tend to be attracted by the culture of football.
I don't like it but I've been around it for long enough to see it with my own eyes.

 

[Albert Park]

You may think I'm splitting hairs here, but I'd say its a social problem that attaches itself to football due to the tribal mentality.
Aggressiveness in certain scoial groups is a social issue.
Becoming disorderly having gotten pished is a social issue.
The sort of people who are likely to do both tend to be attracted by the culture of football.
I don't like it but I've been around it for long enough to see it with my own eyes.

Hallelujah. This is precisely the point I've been attempting to put across to those who see it exclusively as a football problem. I'm pleased that someone else recognises what's right in front of their nose.

 

[grumpyoldb]

I play cricket on wednesday evenings, and sunday mornings.
Wednesday, after nets, I have a gallon.
I don't fight. I don't get arrested. I don't trash someone's car. What the fcuk is that all about.
Sunday A.M. I play cricket. If there are 5 overs to be played at 15 mins to opening time, you you want to see the bowling rate!!!

You go for the sport. You go for the social life.


Or you go to cause trouble.
Football ALWAYS has an excuse.

 

[Downsizer]

Football ALWAYS has an excuse.

I disagree....football is the hooligans excuse. Many would say that those who go to football to cause trouble are not true football fans.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

I play cricket on wednesday evenings, and sunday mornings.
Wednesday, after nets, I have a gallon.
I don't fight. I don't get arrested. I don't trash someone's car. What the fcuk is that all about.

You're just paraphrasing the same thing!

You don't act like an aggressive asshole because you're not pre-disposed towards doing so. Football attracts the sort of people who are.

As for football always having an excuse...you hear what you want to hear and believe what you want to believe. Football knows it has this unsavoury element and has done a great deal to try and remove it from its midst. On the whole its done a reasonable job but its almost impossible to weed out all the troublemakers unless you engage in some massive social engineering or population control.
It IS usually the minority that spoil it, its just that the media loves to point its long lense at the incidents when they happen and focus their attention on it. That doesn't make it right. And it could just so easily be cricket or rugby that has this problem IF they were sports that were attractive to the 'wrong' sort of people. They aren't (they're both as dull as ditchwater :: ) and so the most popular sport gets saddled with the problem.

 

[grumpyoldb]

OK...........I'm probably going to ask the one question that footy fans don't want to hear................

If it's only 1% of footy fans causing the problem...........................

.......................why don't the other 99% sort them out???

If there are 100,000 of you going to a match, why don't you get 100 onto 1 and say.........fcuk off, you're giving us a bad name. We don't want you.

Well..................................???

 

[Downsizer]

How can you tell somebody is going to kick off prior to them doing so? And then what do you do...meet violence with more violence....the majority of people will walk away to avoid confrontation.

 

[grumpyoldb]

99 to 1.............................
I think not.
Just how many excuses are the jocks going to drum up for fitba violence????

They are in your midst. You are just making excuses for them now.
You are there with them.
They are your problem. Sort them out. FFS.

 

[Downsizer]

99 to 1.............................
I think not.
Just how many excuses are the jocks going to drum up for fitba violence????

Firstly I'm not a Scotsman....

Secondly I don't think anybody is trying to excuse the behavior of some the other night.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 99 to 1, however when trouble kicks off normal law abiding people move away...same as people ignore crime in the street, nobody wants to get involved, a symptom of todays society.

They are in your midst. You are just making excuses for them now.
You are there with them.
They are your problem. Sort them out. FFS.

How would you propose they are sorted out? Should somebody wade in to batter them? Surely its better to leave them to the enforcers of law and order, the police?

 

[grumpyoldb]

Lots of people have quoted that it was only 1% of rangers fans causing trouble.
We know that there were a minimum of 100,000 rangers fans in manchester.
1% equals 99 to 1.....................

Well it did when I went to school.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

OK...........I'm probably going to ask the one question that footy fans don't want to hear................

Why? Because you think its difficult to answer? DT_Xtremez_31:

If it's only 1% of footy fans causing the problem...........................

.......................why don't the other 99% sort them out???

If there are 100,000 of you going to a match, why don't you get 100 onto 1 and say.........fcuk off, you're giving us a bad name. We don't want you.

Well..................................???

First of all, if you peruse an average football fasn forum you will find that the real knoobheads are getting told exactly that. But the knoobheads don't care because, well, they're knoobheads.
And, as stated above, trouble often occurs when the opportunity arises - its not an everyweek occurence. So actually weeding them out in person isn't so simple, for the same reason its almost impossible for communities to weed the trouble makers out when they know who they are and where they live.

TBH Grumpy I'm not sure what point you're trying to make ? Most here have acknowledged that there is an aggressive, troubleseeking element amongst footballs fanbase. Its there because of the sort of person who is attracted to football.
Rugby and Cricket don't have it...whoooppeee doooo, that doesn't mean that because football does have it its all 'footballs fault' or that 'football' isn't trying to rid itself of the scummers who ruin the name of the game.

Lewis Hamilton was abused in Spain by a minority of cretins during pre-season testing. Does that mean F1 is at fault?

 

[grumpyoldb]

Why? Because you think its difficult to answer? DT_Xtremez_31:

It probably is for footy fans..........




First of all, if you peruse an average football fasn forum you will find that the real knoobheads are getting told exactly that. But the knoobheads don't care because, well, they're knoobheads.
And, as stated above, trouble often occurs when the opportunity arises - its not an everyweek occurence. So actually weeding them out in person isn't so simple, for the same reason its almost impossible for communities to weed the trouble makers out when they know who they are and where they live.

"They don't cause trouble where they live...........they cause trouble where others live.DT_Xtremez_31: "

TBH Grumpy I'm not sure what point you're trying to make ? Most here have acknowledged that there is an aggressive, troubleseeking element amongst footballs fanbase. Its there because of the sort of person who is attracted to football.

"The point I'm trying to make is quite simple. You are just not reading it.
We don't want you. Fcuk off. "


Rugby and Cricket don't have it...whoooppeee doooo, that doesn't mean that because football does have it its all 'footballs fault' or that 'football' isn't trying to rid itself of the scummers who ruin the name of the game.

"Not trying at all springs to mind...................."

 

[he_who_dares_rodney]

A couple of points if I may

Rangers are a Scottish team - When it looked like they may win it they were promoted to a British team by the media and then busted back to a Scottish team when they lost.

The fans wern't Scottish - They had came from all over.
The t.v showed interviews with fans and there was plenty from N.I. and England present in the square

If you watch one of the videos (from the Sun I believe) you can hear all sorts of accents.
The Army medic who saved the copper had an English accent - He saved the copper but was right in the middle of the trouble.

Manchester should have been more prepared - Celtic took 80,000 - 100,000 to Portugal in 2003 so it should have been obvious that a similer number where going to travel a couple of hours down to Manchester.
People on 5 live where quoting the council and police were expecting 2000 - 10,000 soo they were totally unprepared if that was the case

The Fanzones should have been set up in field miles away from the city centre and they could have done as much damage (to nothing - empty field with just them in it) as they wanted.

There always will be an element of people who go to these events merely to cause trouble
The Russian fans came with a reputation and that is all that is needed to get these people there and set them off
There are enough pictures of those involved and the should be circulated by the police and media and then they should be hauled into court and hammered
I personally would remove their passports for life so they can explain to there family that they can't have holidays abroad because dads a kn0b

I live next to York racecourse and we see the urinating in the street (men and women) the place get covered in litter
We see people sitting outside pubs ate 0900 with crates waiting for the pubs to open
I know people who book days off to go to the racing and spend the day watching the racing in the pub and can't stand by 1500!
On big race days (20,000+) the town centre is like a battlefield but then so is most Saturdays if you want to go looking for it you can find it.

It will always happen the common denominator is drink once people are drunk it can spark off in a second and people will join in without even knowing why they are doing it

 

[propersplitbrainme]

"Not trying at all springs to mind...................."

If you think that the difference between football trouble now, versus the 1970s and 80s mean that football isn't trying at all then you're just being obstinate in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary.
And if that pithy one-liner (which you could have written in response to any answer I gave to your question ) is the best response you can muster, then you've well and truly lost the argument.
I apologise for wasting your time trying to discuss it intelligently with you.

 

[Albert Park]

If you think that the difference between football trouble now, versus the 1970s and 80s mean that football isn't trying at all then you're just being obstinate in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary.
And if that pithy one-liner (which you could have written in response to any answer I gave to your question ) is the best response you can muster, then you've well and truly lost the argument.
I apologise for wasting your time trying to discuss it intelligently with you.

Nice try, pal.

I've had similar exchanges where you feel as though:

a. the other person is a wind-up merchant

b. they will slaughter football at the drop of a hat

You made good points which were seemingly ignored or discounted out of hand.

 

[fergo]

""The drinking laws in England are far more liberal that in Scotland (ban on public drinking), and you cannot drink at football grounds at all.""

As I said, maybe we should follow scotlands example and ban drinking.
After all, scotland clearly knows the problems when scots drink, otherwise, scotland would not ban drinking.

.................and an old scottish line...................
Maybe you should take more water with it.DT_Xtremez_31:

Are you serious or looking for a bite?

Are you forgetting the England fans at France 98-only fans to cause trouble. The England fans at Euro 2000?

I think it is a problem across the UK with drink and a certain element of the "supportors" of football.

The same can also be said of holiday makers in Magaluf etc

 

[fergo]

Its a simple recipe:
Take a large number of Brits, although to be fair its usually us English, a nation increasingly boorish and loutish in its behaviour.
Add alcohol, the more the better. Us Brits have an immature attitude towards drink, we always have done and probably always will do.
The more Brits and the longer they have to p1ss it up the better because somewhere in the mix there are bound to be some t0sspots who will be unable to control themselves given the right stimulus.
Add a smattering of organisational incompetence.
And then find a 'spark'. It can be anything, a failed TV screen, a goal conceded, an overzealous cop, an opportunity to nip past security....and we have KICK OFF.

It could happen to any set of fans anywhere, let nobody kid themselves. That said, the more of them there are, the more exposure they have to alcohol and the more opportunities they have to misbehave and the more experienced they are at trying it on, the more likely they are to be involved in some sort of trouble.

A brilliant post! Wish i could have put it like that. Your team have also been labbeled an suffered because of similar incidents.

Once again a very balanced and accurate post

 

[fergo]

So it was British fans that rioted in Heysel?

British fans who trashed Charleroi in Euro 2000?

British fans who stormed Athens in the Champs League Final?

Andy Murray, the British Tennis player?

In those 4 statements above, the Sweaties are very quick to point out that the first three should read "English" and the fourth "Scottish", instead of "British".

It was the Jocks that trashed Manchester, not the English or Welsh.

Look mate, as Rangers fans we are not Scottish. We are a British CLub with a Scottish identity.

Rangers are seen as a beacon of protestant/unionist tendencies and we sing God Save the Queen and Rule Britania for a reason.

I wish "ousiders" would undersand this

 

[fergo]

propersplitbrainme and Albert Park have IMO hit the nail on the head. Totally agree with your sentiments.

As someone from the West of Scotland i have been brought up with football not Rugby. I have also played cricket, including for Scotland u-15's and also hockey, again representing Scotland at u-18. But it is only through the airforce that i ever meet Rugby people who have a warped view of football.

It is the minority that cause trouble, and we as true football fans are shocked an appauled. The trouble makers are not football fans they are casuals!

It comes from wider social problem and is down to the type of people and background.

Again, Rangers are a British Club with a proud British culture.

A minority of England fans have in te past caused trouble-seems to have been sorted out mainly, and has has been said you only have to look bak at 70's/80's to see how far we have come. Hooliganism is not welcome and as true football ans we are ashamed when it happens.

Rangers are a true families club and thishas been a PR disaster becasue of a few blootered morons.

The despicable scenes of the tripped and beaten officer, how many Rangers strips or colours do you see? NONE! This does not excuse it but these guys were tanked up baffoons from Glasgow, not Rangers fans.