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Maa & trimble

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FOGHORN LEGHORN said:
Well it would seem you know better than JSP800. I suggest you present yourself to Air Cmd for the recognition you deserve... However, it might be worth noting that the contents of MT Orders covers the very points you raise and implicitly explain to all those who intend to use MT vehicles that they are to remain current WRT JSP800 and their responsibilities every time they use MT. The responsibility lies with the individual. If they don't want that responsibility, don't collect the keys. Simple.
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And that is what will eventually happen.

In civvie street it is called sloping shoulders and is actually 'dereliction of duty'.

Which Volume of JSP 800 are you refering to?
 
Barch you appear to be descending into a pit of confusion caused by your insistance on trying to deflect from the main issue. You are missing the point by some distance and so I suggest you read the OP's first post again and note that he wasn't only speeding but also hadn't signed for the vehicle which he knows he should have. There are many aspects of work and life in general where we need to take responsibility for things whether it be objects or our actions. There are some who are too immature to take responsibility and remain accountable and it appears that this is the case with this individual. End of IMO. Enjoy writing what I've no doubt will be more nonsense and baiting from your posts so far.
 
Well thanks Foghorn you have confirmed my suspicions regarding those who occupy the MT world and have reaffirmed my desire to utilise my own car (with business insurance obviously) for as much of my duty travel as is possible.


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I'm very confused about the level of vitriol on this issue. The individual has done wrong and we all know it. He was most likely (stand fast Trimble getting lost) speeding; and hasn't signed the paperwork. This is wrong, we all know it's wrong, everyone who's ever had a 600 knows you sign for vehicles. Foghorn's comments are fair. Is there more MT could do... Yes, there is a lot of sloped shoulders and not a lot of 'let's educate the non-TG6'. Ultimately, however? OP screwed up and I guarantee he knew better.
 
Having read the op, he doesn't admit the offence, having seen the Trimble report he noticed others on there who don't appear to be treated the same as him and add the alleged offence was over 5 months ago therefore the legitimate aim of the MAA, correct wayward behaviour, is hardly timely.

I think the general gripe in several posts on here probably relates to the manner this had been dealt with, rather than the original alleged offence.
 
Maa & trimble

Ghandi's Flip-Flop said:
Well thanks Foghorn you have confirmed my suspicions regarding those who occupy the MT world and have reaffirmed my desire to utilise my own car (with business insurance obviously) for as much of my duty travel as is possible.


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Glad to be of service??? Enjoy the wear and tear on your car and I hope your view from wherever your morale high ground is means you can see not one single f*ck being given in response to your personal stance by anyone in MT. Oh and of course that would be after going to MT to ask for them to sign and say that no MT was available... So hard to fill in an FMT1001 though so well done you.


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FOGHORN LEGHORN said:
Glad to be of service??? Enjoy the wear and tear on your car and I hope your view from wherever your morale high ground is means you can see not one single f*ck being given in response to your personal stance by anyone in MT. Oh and of course that would be after going to MT to ask for them to sign and say that no MT was available... So hard to fill in an FMT1001 though so well done you.


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No FMT600 - surely that means no MT would be available? Or will people end up being driven all over the country by MTDs to attend tasks/courses etc?
 
He never said he had no FMT600... But to answer your question, the most economic solution would be utilised. Could mean trains, buses etc and claiming it back.


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Someone once told me a story about a court martial where a guy was being done for not adhering to something that was in standing orders. His solicitor asked the charging officer to quote something which he had put into orders not 3 months before the trial. Of course the officer couldn't remember anything about it - solicitor asked how he expected the young airman to remember something from almost a year ago when the charging officer couldn't even remember something he had written 3 months ago. Case was dropped.

We sign orders once a year and they are so big now a days I'm sure most of us would be hard pushed to remember every little thing we've read. I drive service vehicles quite regularly yet when I arrived at a destination 2 days ago I noticed the 'journey start milage' block was empty as I'd simply forgotten to complete that block. We're not robots at the end of the day and when it's paperwork you aren't completing all the time, with the best of wills in the world you do forget.

The OP says himself he simply doesn't remember speeding - if this is genuinely the case I would definitely question the calibration of the Trimble.
 
^^^ Someone once said... Great story. The fact that he pointed out that he never signed for the vehicle means he knew he should have in the first place. I find some of the comments on here embarrassing. Nobody is saying anyone is a 'robot' it's simple paperwork that I knew well before I entered the MT world needed completing. The only difference is that I now see that attitude people have towards it... One day left on the Sqn and I move on leaving MT behind but I feel for those who have to deal with the likes of some of those who have commented on this thread.

"Your honour I don't remember doing it"

"Oh in that case young man you can go on your merry way, thanks for your time"

Seriously?


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From a CivPol perspective and Trimble if a unit admin sent me a report showing someone doing 84 in a 70 I'd take one look at it and ask them to prove who was driving, how many had access to the vehicle,spare keys etc. I'd quickly NFA it as there are too many variables. Also try explaining to a Magistraite Trimble and there is no photographic evidence of the accused driving, yes you have a signature in the book, but (and I speak from recent experience) they are reluctant to stick people on unless someone can physically ID a driver at the time of offence.
 
FOGHORN LEGHORN said:
^^^ Someone once said... Great story. The fact that he pointed out that he never signed for the vehicle means he knew he should have in the first place. I find some of the comments on here embarrassing. Nobody is saying anyone is a 'robot' it's simple paperwork that I knew well before I entered the MT world needed completing. The only difference is that I now see that attitude people have towards it... One day left on the Sqn and I move on leaving MT behind but I feel for those who have to deal with the likes of some of those who have commented on this thread.

"Your honour I don't remember doing it"

"Oh in that case young man you can go on your merry way, thanks for your time"

Seriously?
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I was simply pointing out that people forget how to complete documentation that they don't fill out regularly no matter how simple or complex it is or simply forget that they even have to complete it in the rush of getting off to where ever they are off to that day. You have previously commented on the thread about the signing of orders - I was just pointing out that not one could remember everything that is in MT Orders these days as there is so much contained within. You're OC MT can you honestly say you know everything that is in that folder? I doubt much and yet most of those order will have been authorised by your good self.

It's not a simple case of 'I dont remember doing it - oh ok on you go son' and that isn't what I meant, if the OP genuinely doesn't remember speeding isn't there a chance that the reason he doesn't remember is because he didn't speed and perhaps this tracker was broken, uncalibrated?
 
I sign to say I have read and understood. If I then contravene any of the rules I say I have read and understood I can expect to receive administrative action the same as anyone else. I also have the chance to check anything I am not sure about before I decide to take ownership of a vehicle the same as anyone else.

Memory is an amazing thing. It's amazing how much we can choose to remember or not remember depending on the situation...


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I'm sure that there are people like that out there however as the OP is (IIRC) a NCO I hope that his integrity remains in tact. You dont have to be patronising in your every post you know - I'm not 10, I, in this instance believe that the OP isn't lying and he really doesn't believe he was speeding.

I'm sorry I forget it's just like that old saying goes 'guilty till proven innocent'…… oh no wait…...
 
Apologies for patronising you. That wasn't my intention, I was merely attempting to explain something to you that you appeared to not understand.


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Well having read this with some amusement here are my thoughts.

OP was wrong and should just admit he's wrong...fair enough!

However. MAA for as far back as 5 months?? There should be a time limit on when an MAA can be sanctioned for the offence. Hopefully an Adminer or Ex Adminer such as Busby can correct me if necessary but if a P1 charge was brought then surely it would have had to given within a time frame?

As for FL. Technically correct on every point you have made. However. You are an OC MT. Another pointless JO in the chain that right now we don't really need. You can get on your high horse as much as you like.

Can you truly say that you understand in depth and verbatim?: JSPs 800, 375, 440, AP 1, AP 600, QRs blah blah blah.

Do I agree with speeding? NO!! Do I agree with dangerous driving? NO!! But we are playing Big Brother. Again another thing to P off the troops. The CivPol will deal with any incidents off base if the individual is caught. If they crash!! The law will come crashing down on them.
 
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OC MT? No I'm not. A pointless JO? Maybe. Feel the need to justify myself to the likes of you? Not likely. Night.


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You know what (this won't surprise most on here) I'll bite off topic if I may. The assumption that as a JO I'm 'pointless' is IMO unfounded for the following reason. As a Flt Cdr I make the 60 (at one point 120) Dvrs under my Cmd my sole reason for going to work. I am not a career officer and have no aspirations to climb that ladder. The whole reason I commissioned was because I enjoyed mentoring people as a JNCO and felt I would be better placed to do that in the role I currently hold. I was right. The past 12 months have been the most rewarding and testing of my life. Judging by the thanks (not the reason I do it) that I get when people walk in my office after I have either helped with welfare, disciplinary, career issues or just generally mucking in with the day to day tasks... The people who work for me seem to appreciate what I do.

Me doing my job allows them to concentrate on theirs. I see myself as a deflector of bullsh!t and a pair of ears when they need it. Why? Because I care. I love my job and knowing I am helping those I'm responsible for is the biggest reward I could ask for.

Do I think the world revolves around me? Far from being even close. Am I pointless? Well feel free to pop into my place of work and ask the people that matter. I'm happy to say that due to the working relationship I have with them I know what their answer will be.

Sorry for going off topic. I apologise and note that I will probably regret this post tomorrow and wish I'd left it at the previous one. I just don't like being put in the same bracket as some of the other officers whom I work with and have worked for. The very ones that made me think 'I could do a better job of it than you' in the first place.

Night.


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