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Naples/BAH Sgts post

Naples/BAH Sgts post

The Naples slots is still established as a Sgts post but don't forget those FS/WO's who fancy a bit of OOA and did not want to do 6 months in Bosnia when it was open or 4 months in the gulf can volunteer.
 
DOO again said:
The Naples slots is still established as a Sgts post but don't forget those FS/WO's who fancy a bit of OOA and did not want to do 6 months in Bosnia when it was open or 4 months in the gulf can volunteer.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many WOs and FS have actually volunteered for a Candybar and Basrah det to ease the time on Sgts
 
And what of the WO's being employed at KAF as army watchkeepers?

This could be quite a good little item to be raised at the FOM's conference.
 
Hello everybody.

I have lurked around e-goat for some time now, but today I have decided to join and post about this subject.

I am a FS FOM (boooooooooo) who has never been downgraded, am fit, CCS current and fully understand what is required of a Senior NCO in the modern military.

Some of you seem to think that the reason Sgts are being sent OOA so often is because WOs and FSs want an easy life. This is not true. There are many, many Sgts who are not eligible for OOA deployment. When I was a Sgt (and, yes, ALL WOs and FSs were once Sgts) I was very annoyed by the number of Sgts who were not fit to deploy. I was never one of those people. There is a significant number of Sgts who have a genuine medical downgrade. However, there are LOTS of Sgts who are taking the rest of us (FOMs) for granted by making sure that they do not ever go out of area. I have never shirked ANYTHING. I challenge any FOM to beat my accumulated days OOA in my career. There will be a couple who can, and most who can't.

What you need to realise is that the problem lies with individuals and not groups. It is very easy to point the finger at WOs and FSs, but the fact is that the reason Sgts are going away so often is because there are so many unfit Sgts!

As for pooling Sgts and FSs, well that's nuts. I would understand it if WOs and FSs were pooled because the roles are very similar. Unfortunately, there are not many senior SNCOs in the Trade so for me it would make the most sense to pool the Sgt and Cpl OOA posts in my opinion.

And I would also add that there should be some priveliges of rank.

If I have said anything that annoys you then please feel free to PM me or reply to this thread. It is a fact that if you really hate your life you can leave.

As for me, I will crack on.

Regards to all,

Fomble
 
Fomble said:
As for pooling Sgts and FSs, well that's nuts. I would understand it if WOs and FSs were pooled because the roles are very similar. Unfortunately, there are not many senior SNCOs in the Trade so for me it would make the most sense to pool the Sgt and Cpl OOA posts in my opinion.

And I would also add that there should be some priveliges of rank.
Click to expand...

Greetings Fomble and welcome to the debate.

Just to address what you have said, and I am not patonising.

Sgts are Flight Operations Managers, Cpls are Flight Operations Assistants. This day an age it takes an average of 7 years to make Sgt from Cpl, with the promotion from SAC to Cpl a further average of 4. Using these figures an average time Sgt has done a minimum of 12 years service.

At Basrah for example Sgts are doing roles outside the rank and trade knowledge limits of a JNCO be it tasking or DOC. A 4 year Cpl ie newly promoted would be way out of his depth in one of them jobs, so the pooling argument does not work. However, a Sgt and FS could easily do the same job. The FS are more than happy to take the cushy dets but baulk at going to Telic and Herrick. If FS are happy to do the cushy ones then they should take a go at the not so nice ones. I agree that too many Sgts have Basah back and I say they should lose the X factor for that one reason. The turnaround for Sgt is really $hitty at them moment and it would be good for it to ease off.

Only my opinions of course
 
SirSaltyHelmet said:
Greetings Fomble and welcome to the debate.

Just to address what you have said, and I am not patonising.

Sgts are Flight Operations Managers, Cpls are Flight Operations Assistants. This day an age it takes an average of 7 years to make Sgt from Cpl, with the promotion from SAC to Cpl a further average of 4. Using these figures an average time Sgt has done a minimum of 12 years service.

At Basrah for example Sgts are doing roles outside the rank and trade knowledge limits of a JNCO be it tasking or DOC. A 4 year Cpl ie newly promoted would be way out of his depth in one of them jobs, so the pooling argument does not work. However, a Sgt and FS could easily do the same job. The FS are more than happy to take the cushy dets but baulk at going to Telic and Herrick. If FS are happy to do the cushy ones then they should take a go at the not so nice ones. I agree that too many Sgts have Basah back and I say they should lose the X factor for that one reason. The turnaround for Sgt is really $hitty at them moment and it would be good for it to ease off.

Only my opinions of course
Click to expand...

SSH, your opinions are shared by many across the trade spectrum (me included). Yes, of course rank should have some privileges, but where that once meant the difference between Mount Alice and Gioia del Colle, the operations we are currently involved in do not allow for that luxury, and rank levels where there is some slack should ease the strain elsewhere. Drivers have been doing it for a while (sending Cpls to do basic driving duties), photographers are almost certain to start doing it (Sgts having to dust off their telephoto lenses and getting crash courses in Photoshop from their kids), etc. I don't see why FOMs (or anybody else for that matter) should be any different.
 
True Blue Jack said:
SSH, your opinions are shared by many across the trade spectrum (me included). Yes, of course rank should have some privileges, but where that once meant the difference between Mount Alice and Gioia del Colle, the operations we are currently involved in do not allow for that luxury, and rank levels where there is some slack should ease the strain elsewhere. Drivers have been doing it for a while (sending Cpls to do basic driving duties), photographers are almost certain to start doing it (Sgts having to dust off their telephoto lenses and getting crash courses in Photoshop from their kids), etc. I don't see why FOMs (or anybody else for that matter) should be any different.
Click to expand...

TBJ, your points are noted but you cannot put a Cpl who has been in the RAF 4 years in an Ops Controller role
 
I have decided to remove these comments from a publicly viewable forum. My original post is still there.
 
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We never said they are! It was pointed out by shameless earlier in the thread about the percentage of Sgt FOMs unfit for OOA. The suggestion was that some FS's and WO's assist in picking up the strain.

So, how would you rectify the problem with un-deployable Sgt FOMs?
 
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I have decided to remove my comments from a publicly viewable forum. My original post is still there.
 
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I'm not criticising one bit. I'm off OOA area again, 16 months after returning from my last - it bothers me not (The wife is a different kettle of fish). What does bother me and has been said by others (including you) is the amount of unfit for deployment Sgt FOMs.
This is an area, that I think needs addressing. How - I have no real idea. The FS/WO suggestion was just that - a suggestion.

The other would be to either send Cpls OOA as acting Sgts or Ops O's to cover. Can you see that happening? No neither can I. Short of the second coming and all the lame being miraculously cured of all ailments, there are few real tenable options.
 
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Fomble, I find your tone bordering on the patronising! have you distanced yourself from the sgt's rank already? Yes, rank does have its privelidges, but then in the next breath, you talk about sgt's being lumped in with cpl's (wheres the privelidge of rank there?) as SSH said, you cant expect a 4 year cpl to do a sgt's job! but it is feasible for a flt sgt to do a sgt's job!
in the long term, with 14 month turn arounds, we are going to end up losing fit sgt's to civvy street, whilst the glass back brigade carry on as normal!
one solution would be to medically discharge the unfit sgt's, and replace them with senior cpls that are ready willing and able to learn the job. i know i might get some flak on this opinion, but really in this case i do believe that the benefit far outweighs the cost
 
Fomble said:
Hello everybody.

I have lurked around e-goat for some time now, but today I have decided to join and post about this subject.

I am a FS FOM (boooooooooo) who has never been downgraded, am fit, CCS current and fully understand what is required of a Senior NCO in the modern military.

Some of you seem to think that the reason Sgts are being sent OOA so often is because WOs and FSs want an easy life. This is not true. There are many, many Sgts who are not eligible for OOA deployment. When I was a Sgt (and, yes, ALL WOs and FSs were once Sgts) I was very annoyed by the number of Sgts who were not fit to deploy. I was never one of those people. There is a significant number of Sgts who have a genuine medical downgrade. However, there are LOTS of Sgts who are taking the rest of us (FOMs) for granted by making sure that they do not ever go out of area. I have never shirked ANYTHING. I challenge any FOM to beat my accumulated days OOA in my career. There will be a couple who can, and most who can't.

What you need to realise is that the problem lies with individuals and not groups. It is very easy to point the finger at WOs and FSs, but the fact is that the reason Sgts are going away so often is because there are so many unfit Sgts!

As for pooling Sgts and FSs, well that's nuts. I would understand it if WOs and FSs were pooled because the roles are very similar. Unfortunately, there are not many senior SNCOs in the Trade so for me it would make the most sense to pool the Sgt and Cpl OOA posts in my opinion.

And I would also add that there should be some priveliges of rank.

If I have said anything that annoys you then please feel free to PM me or reply to this thread. It is a fact that if you really hate your life you can leave.

As for me, I will crack on.

Regards to all,

Fomble
Click to expand...

Fomble we have never met, but I think I love you !
 
mcdoodle...

mcdoodle...

Rank-ranging IS the solution. You are correct. But we are meant to be empowering personnel at the lowest possible level. With the correct pre-employment training I don't see why cpls cannot fill Sgt OOA posts.

As for distancing myself from the rank of Sgt, I am not. But it is generally easier to run one Sgt light in a Section that one FS light, because there are a lot more Sgts than FSs. How many FSs do you think are in the Trade? There are not many at all.
 
And if Shamless's figures are correct, out of those 136 sgt's, theres' only about 72 that are medically fit for deployment.
 
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