Personally I could justify a SAC Scribbly getting the same as a Sgt ATC, but I'm looking through the BMW brochure right nowDT_Xtremez_28:
Go on then.
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Go on then.
To answer your point about the 2 Sgts I would say this. Lots of what they do is generically the same; management of subordinates, supervision etc etc. What HS is saying is that there should be some specialist pay for certain areas, in your case ATC, but perhaps to include things like aircraft engineering. There are so many things wrong with Pay 2000 that in my opinion it will definitely change, and within the next couple of years. Equally, it is wrong to refer to the higher pay band as techie pay or such like, because under Pay 2000 it is not. For my part, I believe aircraft techies and some others should receive more money than a shiney, but the current system does not allow it. It is the system that is wrong not the TG17 people who were visited, nor the JSJET people who do the visiting. We should be directing our disappointment at the system.
And I have been known to buy the odd round unlike HS!!::
And I have been known to buy the odd round unlike HS!!:
:Humble Scribe
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SAC Scribbly sits on arse all day looking at compuer screen shaking their head. Sgt ATC, sits on arse all day looking at computer screen shaking their head - same job same pay
DT_Xtremez_07:
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Mickwreay
Guest
And that means?
RAF PTI £25K after one year in service. Aircraft technician under new system will take about 4 years to attain this pay, having completed almost and sometimes over one year of technical training!
That seems like a fair deal to me! NOT
An engineering officer needs a degree in engineering obviously, but gets the same pay as OC supply. Who makes a decision as to whether your aircraft is safe to fly? Not OC Supply that’s for sure!.
But according to this thread they should be paid the same!
The problem in the forces is we all know what each other gets paid, if you work in an office in civvy street you will probably earn under 15K so why should you get 25K in the RAF?
If you are a security guard in civvy street you will most likely be on minimum wage so why are our Police/security guards on high pay band?
If you are a cook, not head chef! you would be lucky to earn 15K
This is the truth of the matter, if you can earn more in civvy street then leave the RAF! This is why techies are leaving the service in droves, because unlike most other trades in the RAF “we can earn more when we leave”
PVRisthefuture
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Well said.
Pity (or not) the RAF will fall on its arse because the qualified, trained and experienced techs are leaving in doves, and to plug the gap, posts are filled with civvies - or the latest new SAC(T), Op Maint, or whatever next.
Feck it. Chuff chart is up, not long left, and it's someone elses problem.
Off TopicApologies for ranting on a shiney thread.Off Topic
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True Blue Jack
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Mick, you can start a whole new thread in fight club if you wish but we have been here scores of times. This thread is about TG17. Most of us, if we're honest, didn't expect to be up-banded but we have. Get over it.
HS, after you with the BMW brochure!
DT_Xtremez_14:
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Mickwreay
Guest
Mick, you can start a whole new thread in fight club if you wish but we have been here scores of times. This thread is about TG17. Most of us, if we're honest, didn't expect to be up-banded but we have. Get over it.
HS, after you with the BMW brochure!
I have nothing to get over mate! Can't wait till we've all left the RAF & all you high pay band chaps are left to fix the uncomplicated bits of kit we fix!
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Lets not argue
Lets not argue
I think most people, not just techies, realise that techies are not being paid enough, I've said it before and I'll say it again, some kind of promotion that reflects the level of responsibilty they have will result in them being paid the right rate - the army and the navy do this so why can't we.
Just because clks are now (if in fact they are and I'm still sceptical) moving onto the higher pay does not mean we don't deserve it, obviously the RAF have a system and depending on where we score on a scale determines whether or not we are high or low pay. This is an impartial system and doesn't allow for personal intervention by those already in the higher not in my back pay level yard jaundiced individuals.
With regards ATC Sgts against Admin Sgts, ATC SNCO is now direct entry trade so a guy fresh out of training will now get a rather large pay check, whilst an adminer has to many years at the coal face to get the same pay. Argument closed here I beleive.
Officer pay levels far too off topic to comment on.
I made an earlier post suggesting that nothing has changed in our trade but on reflection a lot has, pay reviews are normally 5 yearly so in 2003 a lot of a Pers Admins work was involved more menial tasks that have disappeared, we've got a big recruitment and retention problem, and we are now being given back jobs that JPA should have taken away with no increase in manpower, infact a restriction on the FMDL at SNCO level. So a lot has changed so we may due a little rise.
Lets not argue
I think most people, not just techies, realise that techies are not being paid enough, I've said it before and I'll say it again, some kind of promotion that reflects the level of responsibilty they have will result in them being paid the right rate - the army and the navy do this so why can't we.
Just because clks are now (if in fact they are and I'm still sceptical) moving onto the higher pay does not mean we don't deserve it, obviously the RAF have a system and depending on where we score on a scale determines whether or not we are high or low pay. This is an impartial system and doesn't allow for personal intervention by those already in the higher not in my back pay level yard jaundiced individuals.
With regards ATC Sgts against Admin Sgts, ATC SNCO is now direct entry trade so a guy fresh out of training will now get a rather large pay check, whilst an adminer has to many years at the coal face to get the same pay. Argument closed here I beleive.
Officer pay levels far too off topic to comment on.
I made an earlier post suggesting that nothing has changed in our trade but on reflection a lot has, pay reviews are normally 5 yearly so in 2003 a lot of a Pers Admins work was involved more menial tasks that have disappeared, we've got a big recruitment and retention problem, and we are now being given back jobs that JPA should have taken away with no increase in manpower, infact a restriction on the FMDL at SNCO level. So a lot has changed so we may due a little rise.
It may have just become DE only, but there are still legacy FOA(Q-AATC), ATCA's and FOA (CB)'s that still have to go through JATTC, some have legacy rights upto their 36th birthday - so maybe not.
Thats before I mention the guys who are already controllers, speant years 'at the coalface' have gone through the most stressful and intense ground course the RAF has. If you don't believe me - try it.
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GimpyBoy
Guest
Has this come out to all units yet? Heard it had been briefed to Manning, but the Chf Clk here is still awaiting something to tell him he can buy the villa in the Med?
Humble Scribe
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No GB, still going round the rumour mill.
I don't care what trade you are, no lower rank should get paid more than a higher rank, endex. (Obviously Junior Officers aside) If we go up a pay band, great, we don't have to justify that to anyone - it's been cleared by Parliament; endex. If we don't get a pay rise, I don't care because I get paid tons anyway, endex. No matter how much you get paid I'll still rip your head off if you are a big of cr*p, endex. Now getting back on the fence.
Are you on smack?
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GimpyBoy
Guest
Nope. Just honesty pills. Had enough of people whining and moaning they should get paid more "because they tried harder at school/their trade training was longer/they have more responsibility etc etc". I was trying to convey I believe PAY 2000 undermined the rank structure, a fact I believe often is forgotten in the my wadge is bigger than yours debate. MInd you smack would certainly help me through the day!
That aside, my usually reliable Cmd mole has been very quiet on this one.
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No mate, that's not what I'm saying. You're referring to Any Trade posts that are open to anyone to apply for. These posts will generally have a FOA one stint, then a Techie then a Clk, for example. I am talking about specific TG17 posts that TG17 personnel will be assigned into. These posts include Force Protection, Intelligence, Logistics, etc (Opsec prevents me from going into the posts I have completed OOA)- employment that is WAY out of our trade spec, not just "mucking in".
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Mickwreay
Guest
Nice to see the Admin trade has such experts in the English language. LOL
Good job junior techies don’t make the same amount of mistakes you do!
True Blue Jack
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It's not his fault. We haven't yet found the right combination of drugs and he is not yet ready to be re-introduced to the community.
I think a pay rise might help.
DT_Xtremez_30:I threw the grenade of our (alleged) up-banding into a group of air-tragicers/assistants last night. QRA has never got airborne as quickly as they did!!
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MyShineyAr$e
Guest
I've just mentioned it to a couple of instructors here at Cosford, and it didn't go down as well as I thought it would.
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