Public perception of the RAF

[Rich_P]

Then you really do know some dim people. Not heard of anyone who hasn't heard of the RAF, though I do agree with the sentiments that quite a few civvies when the RAF is mentioned do thnk of flying before anything else.

Unfortunately I do. It's the best that we've got here in Oldham right now. DT_Xtremez_09:

I don't have it with me but

"High Commanders of the Royal Air Force"

"Thunder and Lightening" It's actually spelt like that on the sheet DT_Xtremez_09:

"First Light"

You've caught me on a bad day but there are a few more.

Is Johnnie's "The story of Air Fighting" in that list?

 

[Just like watching Brazil]

Air Fighting - Nope

 

[jack brew]

"Picking up the Brass"

OK I know it's army but it's a good read!

 

[Just like watching Brazil]

"Picking up the Brass"

OK I know it's army but it's a good read!

Sounds to me like something you should be doing on leave...

 

[waafia]

I've just seen some RAF stickers and a sticker book to collect in Smiths, not sure they'll be as popular as the Premiership or Transformers sticker books!! I can just imagine guys around all the crewrooms swapping a red arrow for a Typhoon! Maybe they could start a swap page on JPA?DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[Bluntend]

I can just imagine guys around all the crewrooms swapping a red arrow for a Typhoon! Maybe they could start a swap page on JPA?DT_Xtremez_15:

To make it more representative, how about swapping a Typhoon for 3 stickerbooks worth of F16s.

 

[Cake or Death]

I nearly had a heart attack a few weeks ago, i was out in my home town, a couple of lasses come over to me and my mate and started chatting (they were nurses wahey!) and asked what we did my mate said he was a copper and she said are you one as well. To which i reply no im in the RAF, she said oh i suppose your a pilot then, and what do you fly, sneeringly, i said no im a techie and i fix'em, to which she said well that is the more important job in the first place, and pilots are stuck up idiots. i nearly dropped my pint.

Granted she may actually be one in a million but they are out there.

As for total ignoreance of RAF history etc within the RAF yes agree with that. I know one lad who when he went to th CIO and asked what he wanted to be said a WO his reason they earn the most money!!!!!!!!!! unbelieveable.

 

[Major Geek]

Illbw

Illbw

OK, what ever happened to "I Look Like Bruce Willis"?

Let him loose on the general public and we'll never have a problem again.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

OK, what ever happened to "I Look Like Bruce Willis"?

Mad Collie's most likely forgot the passwordDT_Xtremez_35:

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Mad Collie's most likely forgot the passwordDT_Xtremez_35:

Or he hasn't got an online copy of AP3000 available!!DT_Xtremez_31: DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[BillyBunter]

Totally agree with what all have said on this thread 100%

Just kinda got to be carefull with things i say but the majority or operations in our current locations the likes of the ground troops do not do anything until the RAF and coalition Air powers have done there bit (again being carefull on what i say hehehe) Never so much has Air power been so important and I know the lads on the ground are so gratefull we can be there. Team effort but do agree as an air force you only hear negative on the news and stuff , and when good things happen and a big take down happens its always the guys on the ground that take all the glory (and mostly quite rightly so ) but none of the attacks would take place if you had no airpower.

I really dont know what can be done but something needs a change , in my view the RAF has been so demolished that i dont think many care anymore, its wait along till the day we can collect pensions. :S

 

[Harry B'Stard]

More than just pilots!

More than just pilots!

Looking back over the last few years, do you think that there has been enough exposure of other trades in the RAF?

The most recent one (Typhoon Junk) didn't seem to get the point across apart from a quick "You don't have to be a pilot...."::

"Their country needs you" showed a few other trades but obviously relied heavily on aircraft shots!

I remember years ago was an advert comparing civvy jobs to RAF jobs (the image of a bloke carrying boxes in a warehouse and someone saying "You'll ruin someone's day if you drop that", flicks to armourers loading missile and some random bloke walks past saying "You'll ruin someone's day if you drop that" springs to mind!).

Maybe the RAF recruiting campaign should realise that they get enough people through the door saying "I want to be a pilot!" and concentrate on projecting the jobs that us mere mortals carry out!

HTB

 

[Bluntend]

Maybe the RAF recruiting campaign should realise that they get enough people through the door saying "I want to be a pilot!" and concentrate on projecting the jobs that us mere mortals carry out!

HTB

I thought the RN's 'The Team Works' slogan was spot on. Most things the RAF churn out imply that there is only one aspect to what the RAF does and only one type of person. Apparently, the RAF does what is does miraculously without the need for 10s of thousands of skilled and dedicated servicemen and women who all have to work together to get aircraft safely in the air, safely over their target and safely back on the ground. But hey, I'm not a 21 year old media studies graduate so what the Hell would I know?

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

For example. When I tell people that I was once in the RAF, the first question is " Oh, did you fly a plane?" ( Answer ," No") The second question is usually, "Oh, what did you do then?" When I tell them i was an engineer who fixed the aircraft, they look all baffled. When I tell them that the RAF is also manned by chefs, firemen, engineers, movement personnel, police, administrators, medics, nurses, suppliers and so forth, they look even more bewildered.

What a bloody whingeing thread this is.

Who in their right mind would ask "oh are you a chef then?" in response to `i`m in the RAF.`

The whole point of the RAF is to put a pilot and plane into the required area. It is not a job creation scheme to keep chefs and typists off the streets. In the next generation there won`t even be pilots, just unmanned drones.
If you want the glory and supposed hero worship of being a vaunted pilot you`ve got to take the attendent risks of people firing SAMs at you. But if you want to stay behind the lines getting medals for doing admin work you should`ve joined the MOD.

I`m ground crew by the way, just trying to bring a reality check into some peoples lives.

 

[metimmee]

Slightly Off Topic . . . Apparently the most successful recent advert was the supermarket worker cutting his thumb. It was aimed at the parents of potential recruits rather than the recruits themselves. I for one hated it and thought that it put across the wrong message; for recruiting however, it worked.

 

[Bluntend]

What a bloody whingeing thread this is.

Surely though we're not simply trying to recruit pilots? If there is a general ignorance amongst the public as to how those pilots get into the air, then how are we to recruit enthusiatic servicemen into all the trades that make projecting air power possible? You are totally right though, we're not in the business of job creation - those jobs are already there. Getting the right people to fill them is the trick, hence the need for effective and targetted recruitment activity.

Thanks for the reality check though....

 

[firestorm]

Public image? Who gives a toss, I just want my mortgage paid and my pension when I leave. The public have no idea of what you or I do, and that doesn't worry me in the slightest.
The public are as fickle as the press they get their opinions from.

 

[BillyBunter]

We have a ratio of 1 officer for 3 airmen today, years ago it was something like 90 airmen for 1 officer, that kinda tells us all whats happening and why its the way it is.they get taught a diffent way of thinking ,they dont know about how the real way it is, not there fault. Until the upper echolons start listening to the way it is then nothing will change , the air force will crumble very soon , everyone can see it coming but yet refusal to listen to old school cheifs and above and go there own way will end in tears .sounds bizzare and way out but we being lead in wrong direction from people trying to make a name for themselves to career progress, not a help for todays military im afraid , we need old heads leading the way and there word should be more than young pup joe zobbit.

 

[Bluntend]

We have a ratio of 1 officer for 3 airmen today, years ago it was something like 90 airmen for 1 officer, that kinda tells us all whats happening and why its the way it is.they get taught a diffent way of thinking ,they dont know about how the real way it is, not there fault. Until the upper echolons start listening to the way it is then nothing will change , the air force will crumble very soon , everyone can see it coming but yet refusal to listen to old school cheifs and above and go there own way will end in tears .sounds bizzare and way out but we being lead in wrong direction from people trying to make a name for themselves to career progress, not a help for todays military im afraid , we need old heads leading the way and there word should be more than young pup joe zobbit.

This is from an earlier post (sorry, I couldn't be bothered to type it out again). I'm not defending the situation, just explaining why the ratio of officers to airmen is higher these days...

In the old Royal Air Force we had engine bays. An engine bay could be staffed by as many as 150 personnel but lets say this one has 40 staff. The section includes a Fg Off OC, a FS SNCO IC, a Chief Tech, 4 Sgts, 8 Cpls and 25 ORs making up the build teams and module cells. In support of the engine bay you’ll likely have a Test Bed, probably staffed by a CT or Sgt and perhaps a Cpl. This too requires power and maintenance. Then there’s the EFDC with either a Cpl or a Sgt. In brackets you have the actual cost to the RAF – capitation rates which cover health, welfare, admin, accommodation etc are approx the same as your wage so a FO who gets paid £24k costs the RAF £48k. All wages in the following calc' are estimates.

FO 24k x1 (48k)
FS 38kx1 (76k)
CT 35kx2 (140k)
Sgt 32kx4 (504k)
Cpl 28kx9 (504k)
OR 20k25 (1000k)

Total cost = £2,272,000. per year

The Engine bay is supported in part by Supply Sqn. This will include perhaps a Cpl and 5 ORs.

Cpl 28kx1 (56k)
OR 20kx5 (100k)

Both the Engine Bay and the Supply Sqn are supported by an IPT. This could include 3 civilians, a Flt Lt, a Sqn Ldr, a FS, and a couple of Sgts.

Sqn Ldr 38k x1 (76k)
Flt Lt 32k x1 (64k)
Sgt 32k x2 (128k)
Civvie 15k x3 (45k)

Total cost = £313k per year

Total cost so far = £2,585,000. per year

Right, lets look at the technical costs. The engine costs the RAF £100k in spares for a repair and £200k for a full overhaul. Throughout the year the bay carries out 10 repairs and 6 overhauls. Total cost in spares and materiel = 2200k

Total cost so far = £4,785,000 per year.

Not taking into account training of staff and the running costs of the buildings and facilities the cost to the RAF for supporting this engine over 10 years is approx $50m.
Ratio of officers to Airmen: 3 to 49
Ok, lets look at outsourcing to industry. You need a team to oversee the contract:

Sqn Ldr 38k x1 (76k)
Flt Lt 32k x1 (64k)
Sgt 32k x2 (128k)
Civvie 15k x3 (45k)

Total cost = £313k per year

Cost of contract = £45m

Saving to the RAF by outsourcing = £2,537,000 over 10 years.
Ratio of Officers to ORs = 1:1

If, over and above all of this, you can justify co-locating Sqns at one Stn thus allowing you to close a stn because you no longer need the real estate and can sell it off the savings can be immense.

I’m not saying that the RAF is better off with outsourcing to industry, especially when it comes to the quality of the end product but when it comes to cost savings, the proof is there. You don’t need hundreds of ORs per officer when you outsource – all you need is somebody to manage the contract, hence the ratio of officers to ORs is higher.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Slightly Off Topic . . . Apparently the most successful recent advert was the supermarket worker cutting his thumb. It was aimed at the parents of potential recruits rather than the recruits themselves. I for one hated it and thought that it put across the wrong message; for recruiting however, it worked.

I remember that. At the time I was one of many that said it was creating the wrong image. If it worked then it just goes to show why I'm not in marketing! :S