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screen tours for TTF instructors

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opsgeek said:
The trawl for volunteers came out in November Chief Clerks Bulletin and by the start of April TTF will be at full strength manning!!
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So if that is the case, why the need to screen the tours? TTF has had a much higher throughput in the past and still managed OOA
 
SirSaltyHelmet said:
So if that is the case, why the need to screen the tours? TTF has had a much higher throughput in the past and still managed OOA
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I was down there for a week a couple of months ago. They were bloody busy! All courses are now 12 man and a new course arrives every 2 1/2 weeks(apart from grant periods!) This means that they have 1 course on sim phase and 2 courses in lessons at all times.
The Local sim is now very similar to the JATCC local sim and needs more instructors to man it.
Most of the old guard are leaving of have left and the new instructors need training. This can take a long time and if you start sending the experienced instructors OOA who is going to train the new ones? TTF's aim is to produce LAC's to fill the huge shortfall (78% by June 08?) How can they do this if there instuctors are OOA?
Yes I do agree that TTF instructors should go OOA but the screen is only for 3 years and with current turnround times for Cpl is about 2-2 1/2 years they are only getting 1-1/2 years grace and ACOS manning being as efficient as they are I'm sure that as soon as the screen expires TTF will be hit with OOA.
 
There always was 1 in Sim and 2 in Theory, no change there! Surely if you have done the instructor training at TTF then it does not matter if you are experienced or not/.

How many to run local sim?
 
Sour grapes. If you don't like it, volunteer for TTF, or is that too much like hard work? ACOS manning doesn't just do this after a quickie phone call fro his mate, Wes, at CATCS. At a West London Unit that recently relocated to the South Coast, ACOS manning offered to screen all out FOAs/FOMs from OOA (as well as cancelling all postings) for a year during our relocation. Despite OC LATCC pointing out that this wasn't too good for the rest of the trade, they still tried to do it. A bit of useful intervention from HQ Air (they do have a few brain cells between them), everything was sorted.
 
My blind faith (still - after all these years!) leads me to believe that the decision to introduce screen tours at TTF would not have been made without considering all the variables and the subsequent impact (on the rest of us). More importantly (for the powers that be) PIs are produced measuring Harmony Guidelines, by trade. I know that they are only ‘guidelines’ and that they were bust last year for TG9 sgts but my understanding is that these instances are taken rather seriously and ‘mitigating action’ is required. I’m guessing that whoever made this decision has ensured that harmony guidelines will not be compromised and that the benefit to the trade as a whole is, in balance, worth any impact on those of us picking up the slack.
SSH – I believe that a 3 year screen tour is the maximum that can be fixed. Perhaps a remenant /constraint from nineteen canteen when 3 years was your average tour length. However, as you point out - what is to be gained from a three year screen tour if most of the instructors are on a five year tour? If all the instructors start their screen tour on ‘x’ date, surely this will only exacerbate the problem further down the line when, at the three year point, they are all DWR’ed. It might be a no-brainer, but some kind of stagger would surely be required for them to have any benefit from this.
 
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As a matter of interest - whats the breakdown in SNCO/JNCO numbers, just so we know how many people we are talking about here....
 
Hmmmm said:
Sour grapes. If you don't like it, volunteer for TTF, or is that too much like hard work?
What would that tell you about the integrity of the instructors if the only reason they have applied for TTF is to get out of OOA.

ACOS manning doesn't just do this after a quickie phone call fro his mate, Wes, at CATCS. At a West London Unit that recently relocated to the South Coast, ACOS manning offered to screen all out FOAs/FOMs from OOA (as well as cancelling all postings) for a year during our relocation. Despite OC LATCC pointing out that this wasn't too good for the rest of the trade, they still tried to do it.
I fully appreciate this decision would not have been made following a quick phone call, but what is the real justification? OC LATCC's concerns about screening tours during the move to the south coast were spot on but surely these were exceptional circumstances, a full unit move is much more difficult to manage than a heavy workload which we all have to deal with back in the UK. (It's also nice to know the trade still has the support of the upper echelons)

A bit of useful intervention from HQ Air (they do have a few brain cells between them), everything was sorted.

Hopefully HQ Air will be able to look at the whole situation and sort this one out too..
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As an Ex-instructor with 2 OOA tours whilst I was there under my belt, I thought I'd throw my lot in!!

As far as I know, they are now back up to full strength, approx 10 Cpls, 4 Sgts with 36 students going through and about half of the instuctors are still under training. Thanks to the new Vis Sim, Sims are shorter to get the studes through, I know what's trying to be said but it makes for a very intense place, especially with the new Vis Sim needing another instructor. The plan was for a driver to come down and drive the sim as they do for JATCC but the new OC said to use 2 instructors only, 1 to drive the sim/input back end and 1 as controller/sim marker. This makes for a very busy sim with the back instructor working the injects, flying the sim, working the phones, R/T to a timetable. The front instructor is busy making sure that the student is correctly doing the inject, playing the controller and marking the student.

The powers that be, Air Cmd, want to push 140 students through a yr, hence the 12 man course, if they start to take instructors for OOA then they would have to reduce the course size and or cancel courses. The stn's that are hurting would have to wait even longer for new staff.

TTF has for the last 6yrs had at least 1 instructor out of area often overlapping (occasionally 2) and most have or about to do their 2nd OOA whilst at TTF. I know that TTF is no different but they also had those that were downgraded and unable to fulfil the OOA commitment more burden for TTF and other units to fulfil.

SSH - I cant remember TTF having more than 140 students going through certainly in the last 7/8yrs and you have to remember when you were there OOA's came round less frequent.

FOMz - Maybe someone should look at the posts and decide what needs to be a SAC/Cpl/Sgt post. Maybe downgrade a few Cpl posts to SAC and the same with Sgt's that might help?

My end comment is don't have a go at the instructors in TTF, they are only trying to do theirs jobs with what they have available and if you want to get out of OOA's for 3yrs apply for instructor duties. You never know you might like it!!

:PDT_Xtremez_28:
 
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Hi all, just thought I'd chuck in my pennerth. I was in Kandahear for 4 months last year and 2 of the opsy staff were shawbury instructors. Yep, 2, at the same time. It does happen. OK, not very often, but it does happen.......
 
As a ex CATCS Instructor, I have watched this Thread with interest/disgust.

Everyone knows that TTF/FOTF/CATCS HQ (or whatever the fcuk they are called these days) have been pulling their weight for many years in the OOA Dept, and usually all to the detriment of the final product - THE STUDENT. :PDT_Xtremez_21:

For once, I agree with Balloon Cmd and 'Insidelegupsidedownman'. :PDT_Xtremez_17:

A screened tour for Instructors is a bloody good idea because the Student, yes I'll say it again for the non Instructor types chimping on here, THE STUDENTwill not suffer.

Rant over, off down the Legion to spend my RAF Pension on beer.
 
SirSaltyHelmet said:
and the instructor tour can be up to 5 years! How does that work then?
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Can't really speak about your trade guys but here at sunny Cosford the rule is minimum tour 3 years, maximum tour 5 years. There are of course certain people that manage to tweak the rules to suit personal circumstance. OOA is as still on the cards being here deffo does not take you of the OOA list (for riggers anyway). As Chaka says the vital ingredient in all this is not the instructor or your OOA tours it's the STUDENT these bods will be your colleagues in short order and I for one would like my new workmate to have a certain level of competence.
 
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Dan Dare said:
Hi all, just thought I'd chuck in my pennerth. I was in Kandahear for 4 months last year and 2 of the opsy staff were shawbury instructors. Yep, 2, at the same time. It does happen. OK, not very often, but it does happen.......
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May I just add, at my unit (which has roughly equivalent manning to TTF) I have 1 Sgt, 2 Cpls and an SAC away at the moment, but you don't see me harking on about it...oh bugger. :raf:

What has astounded me about this thread, is once again a pretty simple question has been asked and the people who it refers to, become defensive and start saying things like 'well why don't you become an instructor then'

To my mind, I think this thread has asked a pretty relevant question to be honest, as I haven't seen anything official pushed out about it, so the rumour mill is bound to start isn't it. But should have anything official been pushed out? Well look at it this way, if it had; maybe this thread wouldn't have ever existed.
OOA harmony times are affecting everyone, some every 14-16 months at the moment. It is a VERY emotive subject, let’s not forget that point. Nobody likes doing it, but its the nature of the beast nowadays. There's two sides to every coin guys. This thread has asked a pretty relevant question about one side and been given a fair answer in my opinion, so maybe a bit of consideration for those on the other side who will be covering those slots wouldn't go amiss as well.
The way to a strong team is good internal communication, something which maybe we are sadly lacking or is in need of some improvement.
Think about that last comment guys...


I bid you goodnight.
 
I have read through my posts. Where is the preaching? Where do I actually have a go at instructors not going OOA? I asked a few questions and made a few points. Is that preaching?
 
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