screen tours for TTF instructors

[sooms]

Oh dear...I seem to have upset some people,

Guys...

What I'm trying to get over is -

We all know that parts of the trade are operating at near to max capacity,

We all know that OOA turnrounds, especially for FOM and FOA are coming round too soon. (I'm fortunate that I don't usually fall into the OOA bracket as I do enough time away to gain an OOA credit)- I do however sympathise with those that do.

We all know that while the ATC branch 'run' the OR Flt Ops trade we will always be at the bottom of the pecking order; I'm not sure whether the Flt Ops branch could do much better however given the current state.- This is not a 'dig' at anyone- just an observation of how it is- I honestly don't know the best solution.

I'm just an ordinary guy, trying to cope with an increasing workload, less staff and more committments- we've just been told to expect 3 months on Telic and 3 months on Herrick in the next 12 months as well as the normal round of dets. - not as bad as some units I know but a fairly heavy committment none the less.

I fully apprieciate that there are many others out there who work just as hard or harder than me; I don't understand why, if FOTF is so pushed, they need to screen their instructors from OOA, thereby shafting other members of the trade when there is surely other ways of increasing output like extending the working day- many of us have to on a daily basis.

I would love to visit FOTF sometime- I just won't tell you when!!

 

[Donald Rumsfeld]

Sooms.
I do not think that you have upset people, but more than likely you have caused irritation to many. Your argument with all due respect appears to be no more than a rant from a NAAFI cowboy. What I mean by this is that your comments are subjective, emotional, and have no basis in fact. TTF do pull their weight, there are very stringent regulations on working hours, not to mention budget requirements, and the manning issue of working weekends. Your ranting is puerile and simplistic, I say this will all due respect to you as I would not want this thread to descend into a slagging match. Read what others have said and take note of it - SSH/Chaka speak with a reasonable and informed view. Further the issue of medals on Officers is irrelevant and not needed.
You need to pay a visit to Shawbury (ATCTS and TTF) fast and appreciate just how hard they have to work. In short your wrong - very wrong !

 

[Hmmmm]

sooms, firstly you haven't upset me - I'm just disappointed.
You appear to like the phrase "we all know". We I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we don't. As suggested, why don't you actually go and talk to the guys making the decisions (it would appear you are a SNCO) and get the big picture. You may think that ATC running the show is a cause, well I would offer that the problems you cite could not be easily/quickly resolved by anyone, regardless of trade/profession. Alternatively, you can stay in your own little world and fuel the fire.

PS. You really don't help yourself with throw away lines about USA and OOA credits.

 

[J Y Kelly]

How many Corporals, sorry Acting Sergeants are taken out of the system at any one time for their 6 months + on JATCC ? How many more will have the opportunity to do the course before the DE Sergeants take over? I'm not trying to stir it, it's just that the loss of these people must have an impact on the OOA plot. In selecting someone for JATCC do they ensure that they have done their fair share?

 

[Shreks stunt double]

I would just like to say sorry to any decent instructors for inferring they may have a lack of moral fibre. It was not my intention to start a moan about them.

My concerns remain the ever shortening times between our OOAs. We are told that the downgraded FOMs and FOAs will still be sent to Al Udeid and MPA but has anyone actually noticed that since this little gem was brought out the turnround times seem to be getting shorter. Was this purely a statement to keep ther workers happy or will it take time to put into place? If so, how long before we see the benefits?

It seems to me that TG9 management are allowing the downgraded staff to take the easy route and leaving the fit and deployable personell (of which we should all be) to pick up the slack. What incentive does this give me? As a JNCO I am supposed to aspire to fulfill a SNCO position but if my turn round times are to drop to every 18 months when there are some who have never been OOA what is my motivation?

How about posting all the non deployable staff to the screen tour posts so we can take them out of the loop completely. This would also ensure the fit and able guys, who are stuck in screened tours, could be released and help reduce our turn round times.

Just a thought!!

 

[JFOM]

It's time to address the balance.

I've been reading this thread with the over-riding sense that we might be being conspicuous by our absence, but also with a warm-fuzzy feeling by numerous members for supporting us - thanks chaps.

As one of the 2 Shawbury instructors that was deployed to Afghanistan last year, I feel slightly agrieved by some of the comments about 'lack of moral fibre' as well as the comments with regards us 'pulling our weight'.

Within the last year we have had the following posted in:

1 Flt Lt
1 SNCO
7 Cpls

We've also had one Instructor on permanent sick leave due to serious illness, this out of section of 18 instructors.

One instructor - with full manning takes approximately 6 months to get fully qualified. Each instructor in Sims that is undergoing training needs one qualified and experienced instructor to train them.

Last years deployments meant that at one point we did have two instructors OOA and three preparing for one (albeit, one was from NVQ), I believe insidelegman mentioned this.

Now factor in the usual stuff that every station has to deal with, Guards (albeit a standby guard but still needs two days worth of training) etc.

With regards the working day, we are unable to make under18's (incidentally, these are increasing) work past 1700 due to Adult Learning Inspectorate and MOD Supervisory Care Directives, furthermore there are restrictions on students working weekends.

But to be honest, this is irrelevant as just because students aren't working, it does not mean the instructors aren't either. We consistently work from 0730 and regularly work past 1700 to catch up on the admin which is essential to the course, we also have to have a Duty Instructor in the section till 2000 (This should be 2200, but because these are taken normally from trained strength the times had to be changed) and the DI is on call anytime outside of these times.

I appreciate more than anyone that every station is suffering and this is increasing amongst the JNCO's, but this is not due purely to the screen tour decision for instructors but was actually occuring before the decision was taken.

Ultimately there is a deficit of LAC's and SAC's - it's up to us to get the numbers up in order to relieve the burden there. Most instructors have already been on a det in the last 2 years, so therefore the screened tour is not what it seems anyway, but merely the time between expected Dets.

for those still believing we don't pull our weight please think about the bigger picture. Think about the last time you dealt with a surprise pregnancy / suicide / parent dying / parent dead / parent break up / [insert welfare issue here] and then decide if we're pulling our weight.

Kind regards and I for those OOA especially in KAF - stay safe.

Regards,

JFOM

 

[Shreks stunt double]

JFOM,
In the previous post to yours I have already made an apology for the LMF comment. It is the policymakers - not the workers creating the problem here.

I would just like to echo your thoughts on wishing all TG9(as well as everyone else) a safe tour wherever they are.

 

[Bellowyelly]

Think about the last time you dealt with a surprise pregnancy / suicide / parent dying / parent dead / parent break up /

Yep had all those and a few to scary to mention.

 

[FOMz]

Once again, Thanks guys - the thread teetered on the brink of descending into the a back biting thread, but was clawed back at the last moment.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

I will just re-iterate, all Instructors no matter what trade are screened for 3 years and will not be deployed without the express permission of the Trade Sqn WO. It just does NOT apply to TG9 only.

Lets do the maths here 10 Cpls and 4 Sgts are not going to have much impact on the harmony times. It would shrink it by a month maybe? If having them off the list for 3 years brings 140 in to the list then lets stop complaining. Gets a little harder before improvement begins.

Everyone seems to be poining the finger,"The Management", "ATC" etc - there are many factors in all of this but it stills points to one thing. BUMS ON SEATS. Without people walking throught the door at AFCO then nothing will be done. ACOS / ATC Management and even TTF are blameless in this one.

It has been a good debate - I have enjoyed it

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Once again, Thanks guys - the thread teetered on the brink of descending into the a back biting thread, but was clawed back at the last moment.

Intelligent debate from Flight Ops types - I was certainly surprised!!

Seriously though, if a forum like this can educate and inform those outside (and indeed inside) the training regime then long may it go on.

I hear on the grapevine that my trade may be picking up another couple of dets with you in UK bases, coupled with a few WO level OOAs, hopefully this will help us all out in the short/medium term.