chumpzilla
Sergeant
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It will end up being one Rodney and his border collie in the next SDSR at this rate...
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It will end up being one Rodney and his border collie in the next SDSR at this rate...
Pilgrimshuffler, there actually is a reason why this is asked by ex Tg3 personnel.. I (for one) always did this with any new staff. Here are a few of the reasons why (the list is a lot longer):-
1. I needed to know past experience for safety reasons
2. Were you colour blind? Seriously, originally TG11 did not have to pass the test TG3 did.
3. Were you qualified to climb?
4. Were you up to speed on H&S, COSHH, documentation job cards etc?
5. Was there any gap in training that needed to be filled.
This is just scratching the surface of what I needed to know to be a safe manager.
You'll get a better decision from the border collie. I woof for him -
pilgrimshuffler
SAC
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Digzster, you might well have done this but the times it has happened to me it was for the ignorant to gauge my back ground and not perhaps for my potential. I can also assure you there has never been a GAP in my training nor ability, I'm not blind to the fact though that there were a handful of TG11 that were not perhaps up to standard, I think I must have worked with a few! This is reflective of ex3's I've also met and trained.
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The idea of the questioning (in any trade) is to ensure that he / she is safe, competent and qualified to carry out the task.
pilgrimshuffler
SAC
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Barch, of course that is the case but this is dependant on the arena or situation. My experiences have been purely a measuring up exercise.
Spot on!
Spot on!
The simple answer at the time and the same answer now. It really was pretty clear!
TG4 should have been a new trade - that was the plan or so it seemed.
The guys from the TG3 side who had sort of covered these newfangled computers with self learning and genuine interest in this new technology that sprang out of nowhere would get the chance to re-trade. As would others who were suitable.
But the main purpose of 'Computers' suddenly became email-messaging. And the new digital exchanges were being programmed by the TCs of TG3 (could start a whole new bashing debate there!). Meaning less signal traffic/ no work for the pbx operator and a trade about to lose a purpose.
In steps a "HERO" a small trade with little to do and a new trade which needs a large number of bods who can type.
and so the RAF was provided with an answer to a problem they didn't really have.
Spot on!
The simple answer at the time and the same answer now. It really was pretty clear!
TG4 should have been a new trade - that was the plan or so it seemed.
The guys from the TG3 side who had sort of covered these newfangled computers with self learning and genuine interest in this new technology that sprang out of nowhere would get the chance to re-trade. As would others who were suitable.
But the main purpose of 'Computers' suddenly became email-messaging. And the new digital exchanges were being programmed by the TCs of TG3 (could start a whole new bashing debate there!). Meaning less signal traffic/ no work for the pbx operator and a trade about to lose a purpose.
In steps a "HERO" a small trade with little to do and a new trade which needs a large number of bods who can type.
and so the RAF was provided with an answer to a problem they didn't really have.
pilgrimshuffler
SAC
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But the main purpose of 'Computers' suddenly became email-messaging. And the new digital exchanges were being programmed by the TCs of TG3 (could start a whole new bashing debate there!). Meaning less signal traffic/ no work for the pbx operator and a trade about to lose a purpose.
Mug most of that is completely correct, but there were an extremely large element of TG11's working on these aswell, like you I don't want a debate on that, I know as I was one of them. I'm going to through a genuine piece of factual information in, the only reason we as a trade stayed as high was because the aerial/riggers came along to the party.
Mug most of that is completely correct, but there were an extremely large element of TG11's working on these aswell, like you I don't want a debate on that, I know as I was one of them. I'm going to through a genuine piece of factual information in, the only reason we as a trade stayed as high was because the aerial/riggers came along to the party.
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I'm ex-TG3 and been out a good few years so I don't have the insight of how all this new TG4 came about. For what it's worth here's my fourpenny worth.
What would make sense to me is to simply put the techies from AE TC and AF into a technical role looking after the tin, software apps and builds, firewalls and AV . That would mean the TCOPs looking after system admin like helpdesk, passwords, accounts and so on.
Then there would have been a logiical split between the "soft" tech skills of the TCOP's and the techies would still be dealing with radar, radio and the other gubbins that requires the hard techie skills.
Actually a bit like most civvie business handles technology.
A telephone operator handles calls, if the console breaks an engineer fixes it
A Salesman or motor engineer uses a computer, if they need a new app or lost their password, the admin at the helpdesk will sort the password out and book an engineer to install a new app
What is completely obvious is that TG4, as described here and elsewhere, is not fit for purpose and unless it is changed to something like a normal structure which takes account of entirely different skill sets it will never work within a military structure where people cannot move jobs to suit their own career progression.
What would make sense to me is to simply put the techies from AE TC and AF into a technical role looking after the tin, software apps and builds, firewalls and AV . That would mean the TCOPs looking after system admin like helpdesk, passwords, accounts and so on.
Then there would have been a logiical split between the "soft" tech skills of the TCOP's and the techies would still be dealing with radar, radio and the other gubbins that requires the hard techie skills.
Actually a bit like most civvie business handles technology.
A telephone operator handles calls, if the console breaks an engineer fixes it
A Salesman or motor engineer uses a computer, if they need a new app or lost their password, the admin at the helpdesk will sort the password out and book an engineer to install a new app
What is completely obvious is that TG4, as described here and elsewhere, is not fit for purpose and unless it is changed to something like a normal structure which takes account of entirely different skill sets it will never work within a military structure where people cannot move jobs to suit their own career progression.
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The same has been said to many a Trade Sponsor over many years RJL, and I couldn't agree with you more, we should have stayed in TG5 imho!
unruly1986
Sergeant
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I think that another issue with the trade is that the people doing the work (the juniors) know more about the kit and the technology involved, particularly on the IT front.
You then have the situation whereby the management are prioritising and making decisions about the kit, telling people who know more about the kit how to maintain/fix/set it up. This doesn't do anything for morale or motivation, and may be a contributing to the large amount of PVRs from the juniors.
You then have the situation whereby the management are prioritising and making decisions about the kit, telling people who know more about the kit how to maintain/fix/set it up. This doesn't do anything for morale or motivation, and may be a contributing to the large amount of PVRs from the juniors.
Serious question time with regards to the trade. Do you reckon we will escape a kicking in the next SDSR? I know recruitment etc is down but with Marshall, FTRS, contractors....... Do we actually need a huge compliment of blue suits??
I am personally unsure and would "like" to think we won't, but looking at we actually do these days do they need us apart from tactical/deployed & aircraft related shenanigans?
I am personally unsure and would "like" to think we won't, but looking at we actually do these days do they need us apart from tactical/deployed & aircraft related shenanigans?
The TS is hoping? So all GRMS will be available for postings to fill the gaps as of 01 April?
Thank the gods, the trade is saved!!
I think everyone has high exprectations of a career when they join the RAF. And quite rightly so but they are getting a career of box-swapping, password resetting, tea-bar lurking and secondary duties which is useless in the real world. There are a lot of itchy feet in the RAF and people are jumping ship and making the most of their working lives.
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Looking at the results of the poll so far, do you think anyone looking to join up right now would be inspired by an indication that nearly 90% of the trade are unhappy with their job? And the majority of those are too lazy to do something about it and just want to ride it out! The reality is that most of the proactive people that enjoy doing their job have probably not participated in the poll cos they are busy doing something with their lives instead of kicking about and winging on an Internet forum! the problem is we cannot tell how many of those people are left in TG4.
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And what do you propose we do about it to improve the situation?! I'm all ears AH!
matthewt23
LAC
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Richie????
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The 10% pay rise we have missed out on over the last 4-5 years OR a bit of respect and the freedom to do a good job. Either would be a good start, both would make a huge improvement!
What some forget is that we are quite highly skilled and logical people. If something doesn't make sense, why would we buy into it? Happy workers are almost always hard workers, unhappy workers will either reduce their productivity and moan or go work somewhere where they can be happy.
Seems quite logical to me.