Techies have your say

[roverboy]

I was curious to know 3WT's reasoning for considering himself more valuable than other trades when I suspect he has no more detailed understanding of a chef's job than I do of his.

You've said it yourself mate - degree of training, accountability etc.

It's interesting that you should mention COOK though, because if they did the amount of training that my brother did to become a civvy CHEF (3 years) then they could justify a higher wage.

 

[The Dog's]

I remember a big job weighting exercise in the '80's that reset certain relative pay rates that recognised the extra skills/knowledge required for techies. That seems to have gone by the wayside with Pay 2000 with pay enhanced with qualifications within trade. In a commercial world there is an argument for the differential, but this argument is less sustainable within an armed forces enviroment because of many other duties that are common to all trades/branches. In fact one could argue that because a techie is likely to be paid much more than other trades (like gunner) when he gets to civvy street that he/she shouldn't get a pay advantage at all. That 18 months of slog in training by the techie is going to benefit him/her after their RAF service just like it is whilst he/she is in.

 

[monobrow]

The armed forces pay review body is supposed to take into account equivalent pay in civvy street, a factor I believe they have got wrong, judging by the amount of techies leaving at the present time.

I once did the maths to compare my RAF Cpl wages against my mate who hung up his green overalls and donned some blue ones.

He got roughly a 20% pay rise for leaving the mob.

Whereas the "equvalent civvy pay + X factor" seems to fall short by quite some distance.

 

[duffman]

In fact one could argue that because a techie is likely to be paid much more than other trades (like gunner) when he gets to civvy street that he/she shouldn't get a pay advantage at all. That 18 months of slog in training by the techie is going to benefit him/her after their RAF service just like it is whilst he/she is in.

you can't base someone's pay on what they may receive in the future, or how much it cost to train and then try and offset that cost against the wage bill.

 

[The Dog's]

you can't base someone's pay on what they may receive in the future, or how much it cost to train and then try and offset that cost against the wage bill.

Why not? That is what the govt have effectively done otherwise techies would still have a pay differential.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

I'll tell you how much it is in a couple of months Mono.

Of course by then you'll be busy amassing MCSE Cisco etc quals most likely, which as we all know aren't of much value in civvy street.DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[The Masked Geek]

I was curious to know 3WT's reasoning for considering himself more valuable than other trades when I suspect he has no more detailed understanding of a chef's job than I do of his.

Probably the same reasoning that tells me an engineer should be payed more than a binman or a clerk or a cook or a taxi driver or a HGV driver or pretty much any other job I can think of at the non exec level.

I find it quite arrogant when somebody on an obviously less skilled job tries to shout us down.

Shame on you.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Probably the same reasoning that tells me an engineer should be payed more than a binman or a clerk or a cook or a taxi driver or a HGV driver or pretty much any other job I can think of at the non exec level.

I find it quite arrogant when somebody on an obviously less skilled job tries to shout us down.

Shame on you.

Not less skilled. Differently skilled. DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[3wheeledtechie]

You keep on believing that horsesh!t, then go search for admin jobs in the real world and see how much you're paid. Good luck DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[True Blue Jack]

You keep on believing that horsesh!t, then go search for admin jobs in the real world and see how much you're paid. Good luck DT_Xtremez_30:

Did it a few weeks ago to prove a point. £45K without breaking a sweat, and that's without looking at what's available in the smoke. DT_Xtremez_07:

 

[3wheeledtechie]

I smell something.... and it ain't roses.

 

[duffman]

£45k doing what type of work, at what level? seriously

 

[True Blue Jack]

I smell something.... and it ain't roses.

Don't believe me? Have a look at some recruitment websites for HR Managers. My Service experience and the qualifications I have picked up along the way put these jobs within my reach.

 

[Roobsta]

Paid for qualifications and service? Hmmm, let me think?

How about NOT A FRIGGIN CHANCE!!

Lost out thanks to P2K - heaps of us did. Only 7 bands between Cpl and Sgt - don't make me laugh. I was SO much better off with the old increments scheme. A whole pile of folks will get to level 7 and stop there for up to 3 or 4 years till they get their third.

I am multiskilled AV and get no extra - see opening comment
I am double Q'd on aircraft and get no extra - see opening comment
I am Q'd as a Sqn UMO and get no extra - see opening comment

how many extra pennies would I get in the REME for completing these courses? I'd Be Staff Sgt/WO by now! Why didn't I change serveice and take my seniority when they were asking for Av/Radar techs for the apache? I joined the RAF, that's why. 22 years done and not sure where to go next. Need to tke a long hard look at my future...

I vote the techies volunteer to go on low payband and wait for all the others to follow and then double bluff 'em!

 

[Liney Hasbeen]

The link to this forum should be in flashing lights on the home page and every intranet home page in the Airforce, lets have our say ......... even if it just makes you feel better !!

Spread the word on it.

 

[Mad Pierre]

Don't believe me? Have a look at some recruitment websites for HR Managers. My Service experience and the qualifications I have picked up along the way put these jobs within my reach.

There's a big difference between having the job within your reach and actually having the job. I guess with a Commission in the admin branch you'd have a leg up, can't see the average retired airman or NCO being offered such a plum job though, regardless of their service experience or qualifications.

Even as a tech I got turned down for 2 or 3 jobs because I wasn't considered to have the right level of management as a mere JNCO even though the jobs were inferior to my service experience, plus a lot of civvy employers think people in the lower ranks of the military have all the social skills of the classic grunt/liney.

A little patience and doggedness got me with the right people and I can now earn 50K without breaking into a sweat, I'm doing it right now. DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[3wheeledtechie]

They'd want blood for that money, and it would be within a large organisation. No way anyone fresh out the forces and unproven in civvy street would get that. Probably use headhunters to find the right person, poached as an HR manager from another company.

I think its unlikely an RAF admin NCO is the profile of person they'd have in mind.

Did I say unlikely, meant complete fantasy. Reality check required I think.

 

[The Masked Geek]

Not less skilled. Differently skilled. DT_Xtremez_15:

So, you're seriously suggesting that a cook/binman/clerk/driver is no less skilled than an engineer?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. ha. No really, hahahahahahahaha.

Most engineers can cook, empty their own bins, drive their own cars and do their own filing. Not many of the others can fix planes or radars.

That's why an engineer is classed as highly skilled, not many people could be one.

And just to show how rediculous your comment actually is, you may as well say that a brain-surgeon is no more skilled than a hospital porter.

I don't mean to be disrespectful but some things really get my back up.

 

[True Blue Jack]

So, you're seriously suggesting that a cook/binman/clerk/driver is no less skilled than an engineer?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. ha. No really, hahahahahahahaha.

Most engineers can cook, empty their own bins, drive their own cars and do their own filing. Not many of the others can fix planes or radars.

That's why an engineer is classed as highly skilled, not many people could be one.

And just to show how rediculous your comment actually is, you may as well say that a brain-surgeon is no more skilled than a hospital porter.

I don't mean to be disrespectful but some things really get my back up.

So if I can fix and maintain my car, repair my washing machine, manage my home PC network, etc., would that make me more skilled in your eyes? I don't argue that my skillset is exclusive - almost anyone can develop the skills to do what I do in my day-job; the same is obviously not true of brain surgery or combat-ready aircrew. That does not make my skills less valuable. The sheer volume of people who come traipsing into my office asking advice tells me just how valuable my skills are.

I may never need brain surgery so from a purely personal point of view the surgeon is worthless. That's not trying to detract from the surgeon's obvious skills but if he didn't have them it would have made no difference to my life to date. Just a thought.

One of the important differences between you and me is that it is difficult to acquire the skillset of a Pers Admin by means of a formalised training programme. You could argue that is why so many PSF clerks have such a poor reputation across the RAF.

Let's not fall out over this. Let's just acknowledge that you have your job and I have mine and neither could do the other's easily. Besides, this is so far from the original topic it's untrue. As a former mod you should know better. DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[The Dog's]

So if I can fix and maintain my car, repair my washing machine, manage my home PC network, etc., would that make me more skilled in your eyes? I don't argue that my skillset is exclusive - almost anyone can develop the skills to do what I do in my day-job; the same is obviously not true of brain surgery or combat-ready aircrew. That does not make my skills less valuable. The sheer volume of people who come traipsing into my office asking advice tells me just how valuable my skills are.

I may never need brain surgery so from a purely personal point of view the surgeon is worthless. That's not trying to detract from the surgeon's obvious skills but if he didn't have them it would have made no difference to my life to date. Just a thought.

One of the important differences between you and me is that it is difficult to acquire the skillset of a Pers Admin by means of a formalised training programme. You could argue that is why so many PSF clerks have such a poor reputation across the RAF.

Let's not fall out over this. Let's just acknowledge that you have your job and I have mine and neither could do the other's easily. Besides, this is so far from the original topic it's untrue. As a former mod you should know better. DT_Xtremez_15:

Good post. I'm afraid the movement away from a force enviroment (when exercises were the norm and GDT was seen as essential and and we appeared to have a common purpose) towards a job orientated club, has has further increased the backbiting between trades. Techies should worry more about their own pay and whether it is worth it for the work they do rather than continue to be obsessed with a pay differetial between themselves and other trades they perceive as having inferior skills.