Techies have your say

[duffman]

pm dirty harry he's the man for civvy jet gen.

 

[JAFAD666]

"Recruiting and retaining the right number of well-trained personnel

Next thing, is a name change ... instead of Royal Air Force, it will be ... Papa Lima Charlie ... RAF(PLC) ..................................................... DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Dirty Harry]

OK, serious question time. If you relied only on your RAF training, qualifications and 22 years experience on fast jets what kind of civvy jobs could you be looking at? I only ask because there have been so many threads where people bang on about the importance of getting CAA licences, HNDs, OU degrees, etc.

Across the trade spectrum, most of us have the resourcefulness to make ourselves employable ready for when we leave. What if we didn't do that? What are we worth in civvy street then?

There are numerous career options open to service personnel as and when they leave the forces. Speaking from an aircraft engineering perspective, your skills and experience is recognised outside but you need additional qualifications (Licenses) if you want to attract a decent salary. A mechanic (unlicensed) can expect to earn somewhere in the region of £25-30k. As a LAE you are looking at £40k plus depending on whom you work for. Overtime is extra.

As an example, I left as a TG1 Cpl on £27.5k. I got my first job as a mechanic working for a large airline on £29k. I am now a B1 LAE with multiple Airbus and Boeing type ratings working on the line and my qualifications and skills attract a salary of about £46k. I earned just over £56k last year with a few days overtime here and there (one of the many good things about civvy street).

A 22 year TG1/2 techie can only be employed as a mechanic on leaving the service, regardless of RAF qualifications and experience. However, his/her military training and background is recognised by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) who will grant a reduction in the experience requirements for licence issue. However, it is up to the said individual to meet the theoretical requirements by way of taking and passing modular examinations. You may get extremely luck and find an employer who will put you through your licenses but those days are long gone, the onus is now very much on the individual.

I personally believe everybody in the forces deserves a pay rise because the terms and conditions in general are poor. However, the argument that techies should be paid the same as their civilian counterparts might be a lost cause when you consider that a Licensed Aircraft Engineer can perform any function from SAC/JT, right through Sgt, Chief, EngO and OC Eng. You don’t need all those equivalents out here, one man takes care of it all. All the time the RAF maintains its current structure and dangles a little bit more responsibility for each and every rank obtained, your chances of a decent pay rise are slim. You could do away with any rank above Sgt on a squadron. You need one bloke running the desk and every other Snec could be given all the authorisations needed. Lets face it, it’s the Snec’s and Cpl’s who do the EngO’s job most of the time anyway, the officers haven’t got a clue what they are signing for or the implications thereof. A complete waste of space in my eyes, there wages could be better utilised elsewhere.

As an aside, HNC’s, HND’s, Degrees etc. may open lots of doors in other sectors when you leave the forces. However, if you want to continue fixing aeroplanes post RAF then these qualifications become immaterial. When I get enquiries about jobs, every single employer wants to know what type of licence I’ve got and what type ratings I hold. They couldn’t give a **** whether I have an HNC, degree or a load of fancy letters after my name. Focus your efforts on getting the right qualifications for your chosen career, don’t waste it on something that isn’t going to be of any benefit.

As has been mentioned numerous times already on this thread, there are some excellent opportunities and career prospects out here but you have to work for them, nothing comes free.

 

[bigfella]

Agreed but the Quals will only - ONLY - get you an interview. How you interview is more important. I have interviewed people who looked fantastic on paper and were a disaster at interview. Even allowing for nerves etc I asked one chap "Is there anything you are particularly proud that you have done over the last year" He thought for a moment or two and replied "no... not really". I mean given the chance to sell yourself you would surely? This guy was not ex-forces. The Ex-forces guys generally interview well and if we want em we'll train em. High quality staff are worth it.

So Quals get you an interiew, how you come across at interview etc gets you the job. Keeping it is down to performace. If you are a highly qualified lazy numpty you'll not last.

I'm doing fine by the way, 2 years after leaving the mob.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Government Feedback Forum

Government Feedback Forum

Been pointed towards a government run forum which relates to retention related issues.

Apologies if this has been posted here before.

Government Defence Retention forum

Mods feel free to move it to the right forum.

 

[Shugster]

Agreed but the Quals will only - ONLY - get you an interview. How you interview is more important. I have interviewed people who looked fantastic on paper and were a disaster at interview. Even allowing for nerves etc I asked one chap "Is there anything you are particularly proud that you have done over the last year" He thought for a moment or two and replied "no... not really". I mean given the chance to sell yourself you would surely? This guy was not ex-forces. The Ex-forces guys generally interview well and if we want em we'll train em. High quality staff are worth it.

So Quals get you an interiew, how you come across at interview etc gets you the job. Keeping it is down to performace. If you are a highly qualified lazy numpty you'll not last.

I'm doing fine by the way, 2 years after leaving the mob.

When you get to interview RELAX, very important, keep it professional but light hearted.

And a mate said to me, "Tell them what they want to hear"; So if someone says, "How do you feel about working long hours?", you say, "That's no problem, within reason", you don't say, "No way!, I want to be home by 4pm every day".

The question tells you what they want to hear.

 

[Rigga]

The only course I did for resettlement was CV writing and Interview Techniques.
Three days of well worth-it knowledge - and I still use the basic CV I wrote in 1998!

AT interviews YOU MUST BLOW YOUR OWN TRUMPET! no-one else there is going to do it for you.

Apart from Trade training - don't forget your non-Trade Training!
I knew an ex-Chief from Colt was working as a Norfolk Emergency Planner/co-ordinator because of his Eng Ops experience.

Most ex-NCO's are good office managers and project organisers - don't forget your non-defined "transferrable qualities".

 

[Mad Pierre]

I am also confident that I already have the ability to do those higher paid jobs and aim to land one within a few short years of re-entering the civilian job market.

In fact, I think your own experiences prove that it can be done.

Sorry mate, i said I was turned down for 2 or 3 jobs, not I was turned down for good jobs for 2 or 3 years. In 1991 I walked into a plum job as a railway comm's engineer on the equivalent of todays rate of £42K plus overtime and free national rail travel within 4 months of leaving the service.

Techies? yes we're valued outside the forces.

 

[Dirty Harry]

The best bit of advice I was ever given regarding job interviews was to go in thinking the job is yours. The secret is not to talk yourself out of them giving it to you.

 

[bigfella]

The only course I did for resettlement was CV writing and Interview Techniques.
Three days of well worth-it knowledge - and I still use the basic CV I wrote in 1998!/quote]


I think you were very lucky then... no such thing as a one CV. They should all be tailored for the job you are appling for to give you the best chance. The "CV" you produce at CTW is a good start but thats all.

The most important bit is the big box on a job app for supporting information or something like that... this is another oppertunity - you need to fill this if pos.

Hope that helps

 

[Captain Gatso]

Hi there Tubs. Just read your post and I have to echo what DH has said. I am working as a mechanic now and studying for my B1 licences and I have taken a pay jump already. Overtime is always available and I can honestly say I can earn up 34k a year if overtime was included on my basic. If you want more info mate, just PM me and i will try to help you out if you want more info. It was just luck that I managed to meet someone who was in a posistion to get my foot in the door. However I am not looking back, the RAF gave me some good years but now I am working for my future and the RAF could not offer that to me . Sad but true.DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[Tubby]

Cheers CG. The option I am looking at though involves being a scrounging student for 4 years, I have read some of your post on other threads and it also an option I would be interested in. I will see how my enquiries go but I may pm you in the future cheers for the support. same as DH, cheers for offer I may just take it up.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

http://forums.parliament.uk/defence-recruitment/

Just to bring the thread back to the original topic, who has now posted their response on the above?

I have for one.

 

[Joe_90]

Just be careful who you talk to as well when you get out. My brother left the RAF last year and is doing not bad in the oil industry now, the company took a new another RAF lad on trial who wasn't shy about telling the rest of the workers he was too good for the job really, and it was just a stepping stone to something better. Friday afternoon "Thanks for everything, we don't need you Monday." That was an attitude he got because my brother was TG6 and he was TG1, so obviously he was better, just better and unemployed though.DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[T93]

Just be careful who you talk to as well when you get out. My brother left the RAF last year and is doing not bad in the oil industry now, the company took a new another RAF lad on trial who wasn't shy about telling the rest of the workers he was too good for the job really, and it was just a stepping stone to something better. Friday afternoon "Thanks for everything, we don't need you Monday." That was an attitude he got because my brother was TG6 and he was TG1, so obviously he was better, just better and unemployed though.DT_Xtremez_30:

*****

Come on. Someone enlighten me. Which trade/s make up TG6? Not that it matters. If your not TG3, It doesnt countDT_Xtremez_28:

I can recount numerous horror stories about Ex-Service (all witnessed by T93), all Ex Brit Army Signals guys. Apart from one Ex AF guy who liked his drink a LOT, but very very competent at his job...Ronnie Woodcock (Now in Oman as a Transmission planning Manager)

 

[True Blue Jack]

*****

Come on. Someone enlighten me. Which trade/s make up TG6? Not that it matters. If your not TG3, It doesnt countDT_Xtremez_28:

MT. It used to include drivers and techs until the few MT Techs we have left were subsumed into GEF.

Who's TG3? DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[T93]

MT. It used to include drivers and techs until the few MT Techs we have left were subsumed into GEF.

Who's TG3? DT_Xtremez_14:

****

TBJ,

Thanks.

Errrrr TG3. No idea. I have heard that they are GODS thoughDT_Xtremez_15:

 

[whingingciv]

Just a quick tuppence worth. As an ex techie i just want to point out (and in no way de value anyones trade) in civvie street techs and engineers are higher paid than chefs, labourers, security personnel (except at the very top end of these trades, close support, head chefs in good hotels, PA's for example). For a forces chef/clerk/rock to value themselves at the same pay scale then they are in for a real shock in civvie street. An ex tech can get into a job almost straight away at about 10k more than he earns in the RAF. I know this to be fact as i interview for engineers and offshore techs. Can other trades do the same? This is just to point out that i think techs are VERY under valued and under paidDT_Xtremez_06: in the RAF. Sorry for any offence caused and this is only my own opinion. Soapbox gone. ta.

 

[Captain Gatso]

I have got to echo the last post folks. I know everyone has there reasons to, or not to leave the service. I am earning the same pay as a newly promoted SNCO now just for deciding to put in my PVR and getting a job as a line mechanic. I look at all the job sites for engineers and they are screeming out for bods. I honestly do not know how the RAF has the cheek to say that pay rates are competitive to civvy street, absolute bo**ocks. I dare the pay revue body to talk to me and argue that point. Sorry to inflame the techie against the rest of the trades debate, but the facts do speak for themselves. Techies are not being paid in reflection to thier responsibilities and until someone high up recognises that fact more people are just going to leave. If anyone is seriously thinking of leaving just look on the job websites, the money is out there for you to have.DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[dodgysootie]

Just a quick tuppence worth. As an ex techie i just want to point out (and in no way de value anyones trade) in civvie street techs and engineers are higher paid than chefs, labourers, security personnel (except at the very top end of these trades, close support, head chefs in good hotels, PA's for example). For a forces chef/clerk/rock to value themselves at the same pay scale then they are in for a real shock in civvie street. An ex tech can get into a job almost straight away at about 10k more than he earns in the RAF. I know this to be fact as i interview for engineers and offshore techs. Can other trades do the same? This is just to point out that i think techs are VERY under valued and under paidDT_Xtremez_06: in the RAF. Sorry for any offence caused and this is only my own opinion. Soapbox gone. ta.

Giz a job Pal.. As a Raf Mechanical tech, I'm soon to leave (aug) and I'm looking for work(offshore). Can you suggest any good companies?
DS